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#392379
Just to clarify, the USHPA tandem exemption was not pulled at all.

It was the ACA's ability to use the USHPA tandem exemption that was rescinded.

If anyone has the real story about what actually led up to this USHPA action and the time line for the events in the story I would love to hear it.

Please stick to the topic. Please do not pollute this thread with other issues.

Thanks for your kind consideration.
User avatar
By gotandem
#392386
I wonder why you ask for clarification on a public forum when you know that it is the EC who sent this letter.
Bart
User avatar
By davisstraub
#392387
Good point Bart. Because I want a public answer?

I'll ask them also.

Likely because I have not found the USHPA BOD members to be great sources of information about matters like this. The revocation appeals, for example, are held in executive session.

Thanks for the encouragement. We'll see what happens. I'll share if I find out anything.
User avatar
By gotandem
#392388
"Likely because I have not found the USHPA BOD members to be great sources of information about matters like this. The revocation appeals, for example, are held in executive session."
I see. I also think that BOD members are kept out of the loop on issues that are very important.
User avatar
By flysurfski
#392390
In light of the Hamby video, USHPA had no choice but to pull Max Marien's tandem rating.

Robin Marien (Torrey concessionaire) certainly didn't like seeing his son Max on the sidelines and so he purchased tandem exemptions through AeroSports.

USHPA has viewed their tandem exemption as their own little monopoly, and they're furious about Robin Marien going around them.

So while USHPA had known of Torrey's non-FAA-compliant tandem operations for over a decade (who sold Marien all those U$HPA 30 day memberships for all those years?), they only decided to drop the hammer when Robin Marien snubbed his nose at USHPA's monopoly.

Maybe Mr Forbes can shed some light on this subject too.... :run:
Last edited by flysurfski on Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
By davisstraub
#392391
Bart, well, as you stated the EC or executive committee.

As I recall they distribute their minutes of their monthly conference call meeting to all the BOD members.

But you've got Tiki there on the USHPA BOD and if she is feeling left out of the discussion then you've got a point.

I sent the email off to Paul, the USHPA President, a few minutes ago. I have my doubts about getting an answer, but who knows. They almost never like the press, which is basically me, being nosy.
Last edited by davisstraub on Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By flysurfski
#392392
Davis you might need to start meeting with your sources in the middle of the night in underground parking structures.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
By davisstraub
#392393
Unfortunately, your quote above has not been verified (at least to me) and is therefore no more than a rumor. I want to hear it out in the open from the Regional Director for southern California or a person of similar stature.

Yes, it would be great to have some verification from Mark.

I'm just trying to get a straight verified story here.
User avatar
By davisstraub
#392394
I have also asked all the USHPA Regional Directors for southern California.
User avatar
By davisstraub
#392395
In digging into various aspects of this story I've come across a number of issues.

Robin says that the USHPA is in negotiation with ACA ( http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... c&start=10 ). If so, what is the negotiation about? It would seem to me that it would be about money, insurance, and revocations.

Also, speaking with other instructors in perhaps similar situations and those not in a position to purchase RRRG insurance and become PASA certified, this may be more than just ACA. Is this a general problem? I have had numerous discussion with flight park operators and there are numerous concerns with respect to cost.

Does the USHPA want to revoke USHPA instructor ratings if the instructors provide tandems under the ASC tandem exemption? I've heard that this will be proposed at the upcoming BOD meeting.

Is there any validity to the argument that by paying for 30-day memberships that they are paying for liability insurance that they do not receive?
#392397
davisstraub wrote:Just to clarify, the USHPA tandem exemption was not pulled at all.

It was the ACA's ability to use the USHPA tandem exemption that was rescinded.
I looked throughout the first thread and I don't see any claim regarding the USHPA tandem exemption being revoked by the FAA. The title of this thread "Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption NOT pulled" is contradicting the email sent from USHPA.
User avatar
By davisstraub
#392399
Face plant.

Please leave this thread alone. I asked real nice.
User avatar
By davisstraub
#392401
I received a reply from USHPA President Paul Murdoch.

"I’ll answer this over the next day or so if that works with your timeline. There is a bunch on my plate at the moment. Bear with me and I’ll get your Qs answered.

"I’d agree that the USHPA communication was a bit cryptic and raised more questions. There was reason to get notice out to instructors and members in the event that they planned a trip to TPGP. Timing of the exemption renewal was also a factor. I’ve been intending to get a more clarified explanation to membership. I’ll try to get to this tonight. "

I replied that I am open to any time that he has a moment to write back. I very much appreciate his answer and willingness to communicate with me.
User avatar
By davisstraub
#392402
From another flight park, which is not particularly big, but bigger than a one man operation:

"It is our opinion that RRRG insurance is not too expensive for us because we are big enough to buy directly and not through PASA. We might still buy it. The program heavily favors large schools."

"We might also go on entirely without USHPA in the same way as Torrey Pines."
User avatar
By BBJCaptain
#392448
davisstraub wrote:
"We might also go on entirely without USHPA in the same way as Torrey Pines."
Therein lies the rub!!


.
User avatar
By SkyPoke
#392449
BBJCaptain wrote:
Another flight park wrote:"We might also go on entirely without USHPA in the same way as Torrey Pines."
Therein lies the rub!!
What's that old saying about rats fleeing a sinking ship? :shock:
User avatar
By mgforbes
#392454
No, it does not. There was an instructor revocation which is being appealed to the board under our procedures.

MGF
User avatar
By mgforbes
#392455
flysurfski wrote:
In light of the Hamby video, USHPA had no choice but to pull Max Marien's tandem rating.

Robin Marien (Torrey concessionaire) certainly didn't like seeing his son Max on the sidelines and so he purchased tandem exemptions through AeroSports.

USHPA has viewed their tandem exemption as their own little monopoly, and they're furious about Robin Marien going around them.

So while USHPA had known of Torrey's non-FAA-compliant tandem operations for over a decade (who sold Marien all those U$HPA 30 day memberships for all those years?), they only decided to drop the hammer when Robin Marien snubbed his nose at USHPA's monopoly.
I don't know who's spinning these fake stories, but this is false.

ACA has stated that they no longer intend to sign up students as USHPA 30-day members. It is required that they do so to use the USHPA tandem exemption, according to the terms laid out by FAA. They are not authorized to use our exemption unless they comply with its terms. At present they choose not to, so we have notified them and the membership generally that they are not authorized to use our exemption. Is that clear enough for you?

ASC also has an exemption. It does not require membership in ASC. If ACA chooses to operate under that exemption's terms, then that's their prerogative. They are not insured by us, and they have some insurance/bond arrangement with their landowner. We have not determined how we may handle these sorts of situation moving forward. That will be a topic of discussion at the BOD meeting later this month.

Both Max and Robin are current USHPA tandem instructors.

MGF
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