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#391751
Just got the email. WHOA.

"Effective September 27, 2016, and continuing until further notice, USHPA has rescinded its authorization for any pilot to conduct tandem flights pursuant to FAA Exemption 4721 when those flights are performed in connection with Air California Adventure, Inc. dba Torrey Pines Gliderport (whether as an employee, contractor, or in any other capacity).

In addition, USHPA's Tandem Instructor Certification is NOT VALID for tandem flights taking place at Torrey Pines Gliderport or performed in connection with Air California Adventure, Inc. dba Torrey Pines Gliderport (whether as an employee, contractor, or in any other capacity)."



Can they still fly tandems in any way at all?
They have their own insurance.

What are all the implications here?
Last edited by sg on Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By Mellowmoods
#391752
Wow... I just got this too. Pretty heavy email to send to the entire organization. They must really be uncooperative for them to get to this point.
User avatar
By kukailimoku
#391753
It reads like it's just those guys. Whose corn flakes did they piss in?

That read like "you're out of business".
User avatar
By davisstraub
#391754
Rescission of Authority Under Tandem Exemption

Torrey Pines shut down for tandem operations

The USHPA writes:

Effective September 27, 2016, and continuing until further notice, USHPA has rescinded its authorization for any pilot to conduct tandem flights pursuant to FAA Exemption 4721 when those flights are performed in connection with Air California Adventure, Inc. dba Torrey Pines Gliderport (whether as an employee, contractor, or in any other capacity).

In addition, USHPA's Tandem Instructor Certification is not valid for tandem flights taking place at Torrey Pines Gliderport or performed in connection with Air California Adventure, Inc. dba Torrey Pines Gliderport (whether as an employee, contractor, or in any other capacity).

USHPA’s decision is based on the following:

ACA's failure to provide USHPA with accident reports for all accidents occurring during 2015-16.

ACA's failure to cooperate with USHPA in investigation of accidents during 2015-16.

ACA has ceased issuing USHPA 30 day student memberships to participants when conducting tandem instructional flights.

Under FAA Exemption 4721, all participants in two-place flight must have a pilot rating issued by USHPA.

ACA is conducting tandem flights that do not comply with all of the operating conditions of FAA Exemption 4721 issued to USHPA for tandem instructional flights.
User avatar
By _css_nate_
#391756
This is the key clause:
Under FAA Exemption 4721, all participants in two-place flight must have a pilot rating issued by USHPA.
So, the FAA recognizes USHPA in an official manner here and it appears not legal per federal regulation to fly a hang glider tandem without proper USHPA certification. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
User avatar
By designbydave
#391757
_css_nate_ wrote:...it appears not legal per federal regulation to fly a hang glider tandem without proper USHPA certification. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
This is my understanding of the Tandem Exemption, yes.

EDIT: Some clarification has come to my attention. It is illegal to operate an ultralight aircraft in the USA with more then a single occupant. USHPA has been granted an exception to that regulation for training purposes. It appears that other organizations have also been granted exceptions. I was not aware of this. Aero Sports Connectionhttp://aerosports.org/ is such an organization with a current (but expiring in November) exemption. They list Air California Adventure (ACA) on their web site. Aero Sports Connection does not provide insurance however. So I suppose that if ACA has their own insurance and FAR 103.1a exemption through ASC, they are good to go.
Last edited by designbydave on Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By AlaskanNewb
#391758
So is TP going to go get their own tandem exception?
Very interesting if they, and others, do exactly that. I believe PPG has one in place through their organization. I have often wondered if it is possible for an indevidual to get one. Interesting subject.
User avatar
By BubbleBoy
#391759
gotandem wrote:They chose to continue without USHPA. I think that makes perfect sense for them.
Well currently it makes no sense since they can't tandem.

I have no idea if they can get their own exemption (I seriously doubt it).

JB
User avatar
By designbydave
#391761
Here's the actual tandem exemption document. https://www.ushpa.org/legacy/documents/ ... n_4721.pdf

I suppose ACA could petition the FAA for their own exemption, however given their history and the wording of this document, I'd say that's a long shot.

EDIT: Some clarification has come to my attention. It is illegal to operate an ultralight aircraft in the USA with more then a single occupant. USHPA has been granted an exception to that regulation for training purposes. It appears that other organizations have also been granted exceptions. I was not aware of this. Aero Sports Connectionhttp://aerosports.org/ is such an organization with a current (but expiring in November) exemption. They list Air California Adventure (ACA) on their web site. Aero Sports Connection does not provide insurance however. So I suppose that if ACA has their own insurance and FAR 103.1a exemption through ASC, they are good to go.
Last edited by designbydave on Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By JackieB
#391762
Nate and Dave are correct. The FAA granted the exemption to the USHGA (originally) and it has authority to offer or rescind that to members. No tandem operation is allowed without USHPA permission.

https://www.ushpa.org/page/faa-exemption-4721

Also, USHPA has to have the exemption extended every two years. Any concerns about compliance could jeopardize extension.
User avatar
By flysurfski
#391763
Wow Robin finally bit the hand that feeds him. Very surprised... :popcorn:


Very interesting too that this is all coming at the same time the concession is up for bid with the city of San Diego .... :shock:


Time to crawl back under my rock when it comes to that place. Like the sand in an hour glass...... :lol:
#391766
sg wrote:Just got the email. WHOA. Can they still fly tandems in any way at all?
They have their own insurance. What are all the implications here?
Campers,

Insurance is no part of the issue. Without the USHPA exemption, tandem ultralight flight (anywhere in the USA) is illegal at the federal level. Part 103 only allows the operation of single occupant ultralights. Outside of Part 103, there are numerous requirements for aircraft certifications, inspections, registration, and FAA pilot licensing. TP would have to pursue their own FAA exemption, pertaining to Part 103.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SI ... 4.2.103_11
Source: Docket No. 21631, 47 FR 38776, Sept. 2, 1982, unless otherwise noted.

Subpart A—General

§103.1 Applicability.
This part prescribes rules governing the operation of ultralight vehicles in the United States. For the purposes of this part, an ultralight vehicle is a vehicle that:

(a) Is used or intended to be used for manned operation in the air by a single occupant;
User avatar
By Jason
#391767
My only question is

What about people that aren't part of ACA, and just want to show up and fly.....
User avatar
By davisstraub
#391769
I'm going to predict that Torrey Pines (ACA) will not be able to have their own tandem exemption outside the USHPA, so that tandem instruction will not take place there until the USHPA is ready to let it happen there.

What would Bob say?
User avatar
By designbydave
#391770
Jason wrote:My only question is

What about people that aren't part of ACA, and just want to show up and fly.....
The wording of the USHPA email states that all tandems are grounded at Torrey:
In addition, USHPA's Tandem Instructor Certification is NOT VALID for tandem flights taking place at Torrey Pines Gliderport
User avatar
By Jason
#391771
designbydave wrote:
Jason wrote:My only question is

What about people that aren't part of ACA, and just want to show up and fly.....
The wording of the USHPA email states that all tandems are grounded at Torrey:
In addition, USHPA's Tandem Instructor Certification is NOT VALID for tandem flights taking place at Torrey Pines Gliderport
but all i have is a T1......
User avatar
By mgforbes
#391772
If you're working for ACA (Torrey) in any capacity, you're not authorized to fly under our tandem exemption. If you're a T1, then you'd only be flying recreationally with other rated pilots, and you would not be taking compensation for the flight or operating as an instructor, so therefore would not be working for ACA. You might be flying at the site, but so long as you're not employed or contracting for them, that's fine.

As mentioned earlier, we have to request that FAA renews our tandem exemption every two years. In that renewal letter, we must discuss significant accidents, injuries, fatalities and other factors that relate to our tandem operations. The justification for issuing the exemption in the first place is that it promotes flight safety by giving students a way to train alongside an instructor, as is done typically in other sectors of aviation. That's why tandem instructional flights must have some at-least-basic elements of flight instruction, and are not simply joyrides.

A school openly defying the rules and the requirements of the exemption is one such factor that must be disclosed, along with USHPA's response to that behavior. The same goes for other significant incidents; we have revoked some instructor appointments, and in two cases the tandem instructors were fatally injured. One of those accidents killed the student too, and in the other case the student safely landed the glider after the instructor slipped out of the harness due to failure to hook in leg straps.

MGF
User avatar
By DAVE 858
#391775
THIS IS FLYING THIS IS FREEDOM!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

THIS IS $2 MILLION!

:thumbsup:
User avatar
By Dave Gills
#391776
H4 to fly Torry?
F them

No sympathy here.
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