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All things hang gliding. This is the main forum. New users, introduce yourself.

Moderators: sg, mods

User avatar
By mgforbes
#380333
There has been some discussion of whether we could continue to just obtain pilot and site insurance from our insurers, probably with a premium increase, and leave the instructors hanging. That idea was floated as an alternative to forming an RRG and self-insuring, since "after all, that's what we used to do."

Yes and no....we had a hole in our coverage related to paid instruction, and we plugged that hole when we obtained instructor insurance. We didn't make a big deal of it at the time because we didn't want to panic our landowners into shutting down flying sites. Going back to that situation isn't wise, and leaves us exposed to serious risk.

But that's moot. We've now received word that our insurers do not intend to renew ANY of our policies when they expire at the end of February. Talk of continuing some partial level of coverage under the existing policy is no longer on the table. This just came to light in a string of emails over the past few days. We either find a way to self-insure through the RRG, or we're done. Until this morning, I was of the opinion that we might still have a chance to renew the CGL policy, if all else failed. That is no longer the case.

This really is "for all the marbles". As of today's report, we have donations totaling just under $113,000 from 440 donors, with an average donation of $256.44. What that means is that 4.6% of our members care enough about our sport to help it survive. REALLY? Are we that apathetic?

Come on...I know we can do better than that. If we all pitch in a hundred bucks, we're done with this thing and we can get on with flying at our favorite sites.

Mark G. Forbes
USHPA insurance chairman
User avatar
By Mr Pou
#380334
mgforbes wrote:If we all pitch in a hundred bucks, we're done with this thing and we can get on with flying at our favorite sites.

Mark G. Forbes
USHPA insurance chairman
Not that it's any of my business, but maybe an other email to the entire membership is in order to share this latest "not good" news?
User avatar
By Darbbb
#380340
Mr Pou wrote:
mgforbes wrote:If we all pitch in a hundred bucks, we're done with this thing and we can get on with flying at our favorite sites.

Mark G. Forbes
USHPA insurance chairman
Not that it's any of my business, but maybe an other email to the entire membership is in order to share this latest "not good" news?
:goodidea:
User avatar
By mgforbes
#380347
Working on the next FAQ update this evening, and there'll be another email to the membership that goes with it. I think that'll be a mostly-weekly thing as we raise funds and get the RRG going.

MGF
User avatar
By stephmet
#380376
As a side note, I peruse the PG forum every now and then and have seen anything similar to what we have here regarding the severity of this and the need for everyone to participate in donating where they can. Maybe I missed it? Not trying to start a flame war - but rather bring it to the attention of the folks that are biwingal so that they can get the paragliding folks read in.
By amb
#380388
mgforbes wrote:Working on the next FAQ update this evening, and there'll be another email to the membership that goes with it. I think that'll be a mostly-weekly thing as we raise funds and get the RRG going.
Thanks for keeping the web site updated, too--your audience isn't just USHPA members, and it's nice to have all the relevant info publicly there in one place.

Personally, I'm not a member (nor a real HG pilot), but I've worked in other sectors of aviation (mostly with the big/fast/smelly stuff), and I care a lot that the free flight world exists, both because it's completely awesome and because I've had family making a living in the FAR 103 (and now LSA) world for a long time too. I'll be putting in what I can before the end of the year.

I'm really surprised this is the only place I've read about this so far (I stick my head in now and again to read wistfully about HG training, but I'm not going to do it until I can commit to not just half-assing it), but I'll try and make some noise where it might do some good. I haven't heard squat on it from the PG pilots I know, though, which seems a bit weird.
User avatar
By DAVE858
#380389
I have checked paraglidingforum.com a few times since this whole thing came about & cannot find a single thread about it. I guess Hang Gliders are more dependent upon access to adequate launches & LZs. If the whole s--- house goes up in flames, it would likely not effect paragliding as much as hang gliding due to the nature of their aircraft. You can hike it anywhere & land it anywhere & pack it up in and be gone in a flash.

That being said, if we are uninsured there will still be hang gliding & there will be places to fly. There will always be someplace to go, at least where I live. As for the rest of you, maybe its time to take up bowling....

:mrgreen:

All kidding aside, it is not illegal to fly without insurance, there are no license requirements to fly an Ultralight Vehicle. Hang Gliding is NOT going to die, despite the dismal hyperbole & propaganda plastered all over this stupid website. Insurance is NOT mandatory, it is a choice, a wise choice I might add, & whether or not you want to fly with it is completely up to you. If you want insurance then donate, if you don't care then don't.

We lose sites. This is a fact of Hang Gliding since the beginning. This is nothing new & it has never stopped us. If you lose your local site then go search for another one & go fly it!
By amb
#380390
AlC wrote:Good idea. Posted to PG Forum
I saw it when I reloaded the PGF forum index (title was something like "US PG/HG in Peril", right?), and it had already been nuked by the time I clicked on it to read it. Uhh, wut?

Update: no idea why that got deleted/moved/idunnowat, but there's now an excellent stickied post in the main forum at PGF. (...which I can't post a link to as a new user, but it's not hard to find: "Sticky: USA flying is in trouble".)
Last edited by amb on Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Scott MacLeod
#380391
PG forum tends to be a little more international. Lots of PGs are posting their contributions via multiple Facebook pages. They are engaged and donating real money. Don.t presume much based solely on PG Forum.
User avatar
By Helix3
#380392
Today a highly-respected PG pilot put out the call for donations on Facebook.

In the past 7 hours, he + his friends raised $8,500 (verified by posted receipts).

Our PG sisters + brothers are pulling their weight in this.
User avatar
By Mavi Gogun
#380396
DAVE858 wrote:That being said, if we are uninsured there will still be hang gliding & there will be places to fly. There will always be someplace to go, at least where I live. As for the rest of you, maybe its time to take up bowling....

:mrgreen:

All kidding aside, it is not illegal to fly without insurance, there are no license requirements to fly an Ultralight Vehicle. Hang Gliding is NOT going to die, despite the dismal hyperbole & propaganda plastered all over this stupid website. Insurance is NOT mandatory, it is a choice, a wise choice I might add, & whether or not you want to fly with it is completely up to you. If you want insurance then donate, if you don't care then don't.

We lose sites. This is a fact of Hang Gliding since the beginning. This is nothing new & it has never stopped us. If you lose your local site then go search for another one & go fly it!
Can you go and piss in someone else's cornflakes? "Boats take on water all the time- only bail if you don't know how to swim on your own." I am so done with your s---.
By blindrodie
#380397
...plastered all over this stupid website.
(underline added)

Really Dave? That got you the ignore button.

Love it or LEAVE it comes to mind... :goodidea:

8)
User avatar
By Mavi Gogun
#380398
blindrodie wrote:Love it or LEAVE it comes to mind...
Exactly- though "leave" suggests the exit would be a choice: I reckon it's time to clip his wires.
User avatar
By sg
#380401
I really should have started running this site as a business owner a long time ago. This stupid website? No starbucks would allow a client to come into their business and do what you are doing. You are free to leave. But keep this up, and there wont be a choice.

Im glad you get to keep flying , and the majority of all other pilots? Screw them... right?
I really dont understand your quest to get in the way and trip up any efforts put forth by others. A ton of sites are going to eventually be lost over this. THE REALLY BUSY ONES. And hang gliding will become out of reach for a very large number of pilots in the near future, causing them to hang up their wings.

End the crusade and end the attacks on the whole site, FINAL WARNING.

A bit stunned how selfish people can be.


DAVE858 wrote:I have checked paraglidingforum.com a few times since this whole thing came about & cannot find a single thread about it. I guess Hang Gliders are more dependent upon access to adequate launches & LZs. If the whole s*** house goes up in flames, it would likely not effect paragliding as much as hang gliding due to the nature of their aircraft. You can hike it anywhere & land it anywhere & pack it up in and be gone in a flash.

That being said, if we are uninsured there will still be hang gliding & there will be places to fly. There will always be someplace to go, at least where I live. As for the rest of you, maybe its time to take up bowling....

:mrgreen:

All kidding aside, it is not illegal to fly without insurance, there are no license requirements to fly an Ultralight Vehicle. Hang Gliding is NOT going to die, despite the dismal hyperbole & propaganda plastered all over this stupid website. Insurance is NOT mandatory, it is a choice, a wise choice I might add, & whether or not you want to fly with it is completely up to you. If you want insurance then donate, if you don't care then don't.

We lose sites. This is a fact of Hang Gliding since the beginning. This is nothing new & it has never stopped us. If you lose your local site then go search for another one & go fly it!
By blacet
#380406
If it all goes to heck, you can always move to Lakeview, OR. No insured sites here! (Almost no pilots, jobs or flyable weather in the winter either...).

The map of insured sites is mostly for the coasts so maybe we should all migrate to Kansas or something.

What a mess. Happy Holidays everyone!
:surrender:
User avatar
By sg
#380407
There is a big correlation between


Large metropolitan areas
Pilot Density
Busy Sites
Insurance



But who cares... its not my barely flown site out in the middle of nowhere right?


#facepalm
User avatar
By Darbbb
#380409
DAVE858 wrote:I have checked paraglidingforum.com a few times since this whole thing came about & cannot find a single thread about it. I guess Hang Gliders are more dependent upon access to adequate launches & LZs. If the whole s*** house goes up in flames, it would likely not effect paragliding as much as hang gliding due to the nature of their aircraft. You can hike it anywhere & land it anywhere & pack it up in and be gone in a flash.

That being said, if we are uninsured there will still be hang gliding & there will be places to fly. There will always be someplace to go, at least where I live. As for the rest of you, maybe its time to take up bowling....

:mrgreen:

All kidding aside, it is not illegal to fly without insurance, there are no license requirements to fly an Ultralight Vehicle. Hang Gliding is NOT going to die, despite the dismal hyperbole & propaganda plastered all over this stupid website. Insurance is NOT mandatory, it is a choice, a wise choice I might add, & whether or not you want to fly with it is completely up to you. If you want insurance then donate, if you don't care then don't.

We lose sites. This is a fact of Hang Gliding since the beginning. This is nothing new & it has never stopped us. If you lose your local site then go search for another one & go fly it!
Are you like this in your real life, going around sh*tting on any good thing people are trying to do, or are you just an online troll? Either way, no one needs your negativity. #ignore
Last edited by Darbbb on Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By DBrose
#380416
Has anybody actually spoke with ANY landowners about what they are willing to do after the Collapse To get an idea of what to expect at their insured site? Or are we just expecting them to just be like "too bad for you guys, not willing to do anything for you.. See ya"
Idk I Don't have any advice about this.. I'll just donate some money and cross my fingers. Yep that's all.
If it goes belly up.. I do get free Therapy Sessions from my insurance.

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