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All things hang gliding. This is the main forum. New users, introduce yourself.

Moderators: sg, mods

User avatar
By Jason
#167856
Witnessed an Incident yesterday- don't see the form on the USHPA website- and knowing Torrey---this will never be reported


Sunday Feb 7
While standing in the landing area talking to a friend, I hear him say “whats this guy doing”

I look towards the ridge to see a paraglider pilot flying directly downwind low over the the PG set up area. The pilot then intiates a right hand turn, impacting two stationary hanggliders, and crashing between several others.

After checking to see if everyone was ok and inspecting the gliders for damage(one of them had a bent washout tube) Bob, the local RD, asks the pilot who his instructor was and if he was on radio. Brad Geary immediately tells the pilot to “don’t even talk”

An immediate gag order was in place, no one knows who this pilot was, or who his instructor was. The pilot WAS on radio as evidenced by the radio strapped to his chest. And that he carried with him in his hand for close to 15 minutes afterward

A few possible outcomes
1- the pilot crashes into something hard and goes to the hospital
2- a hg pilot on landing approach is cut off by this “wrong way driver” crashes and goes to the hospital
3- the pilot crashes into the parking lot damaging someone’s car
User avatar
By sg
#167858
Jason wrote: After checking to see if everyone was ok and inspecting the gliders for damage(one of them had a bent washout tube) Bob, the local RD, asks the pilot who his instructor was and if he was on radio. Brad Geary immediately tells the pilot to “don’t even talk”
:shock: :faint:

Covering up accidents from a ushpa RD who is on the scene?!?!
Do they realize how bad this is going to look?

:explode:
User avatar
By CHassan
#167863
User avatar
By Jason
#167867
sg wrote:
Jason wrote: After checking to see if everyone was ok and inspecting the gliders for damage(one of them had a bent washout tube) Bob, the local RD, asks the pilot who his instructor was and if he was on radio. Brad Geary immediately tells the pilot to “don’t even talk”
:shock: :faint:

Covering up accidents from a ushpa RD who is on the scene?!?!
Do they realize how bad this is going to look?

:explode:
Its a "sensative site" which means everything must be covered up immediately......

what happens when one of these students hits a spectator, a very rich la jolla spectator
User avatar
By CHassan
#167868
Ya pretty sad no one would talk about it. But you know Bob would run his mouth off and the HG pilots would make a stink about it, so lets just keep it hush hush. Hey we may even give the PG "student" a free lesson for having to deal with the lot of you after his mildly improper landing. :popcorn:
User avatar
By Jason
#167870
CHassan wrote:Ya pretty sad no one would talk about it. But you know Bob would run his mouth off and the HG pilots would make a stink about it, so lets just keep it hush hush. Hey we may even give the PG "student" a free lesson for having to deal with the lot of you after his improper landing. :popcorn:
The lot of us had our first concerns that he wasn't hurt, then that the gliders were ok, no one raised there voice, or were in any way shape or form hostile to the student

I saw him as I was driving out and asked for a last time if he was ok, and his response was "Im fine thanks"


as for making a stink about it- eventually they are going to hurt someone, and I bet that someone when they are sitting in the hospital will be really happy to learn of all the s--- shoved under the rug for years
User avatar
By sg
#167873
Ive witnessed several accidents there but never bothered to see if they made it to the mag. Maybe we should start our OWN incident database here based on what everyone hears, and compare it to the mag at year end? Could be interesting.

I know Rob keeps pretty accurate records for crestline/marshall
User avatar
By Paul H
#167874
Sounds like Brad Geary should have his rating reduced by the RD for failing to exercise a level of good judgment that a H4 should have.
User avatar
By CHassan
#167875
Tounge in cheek. I'm sure the first act was to make sure the pilot was fine. As for the rest, I have no first hand experience, but would it would not suprise me at all if that proved true!
User avatar
By Davedebogusone
#167887
Well its a good thing Mr geary , don't post here anymore.

Rattle the :cheer: cage and report him for his actions.

But in the real world, I would bet money they would slap Bob for saying anything in the first place. :crazy:

Bet money that"human" is a petition signer as well :cuss:
:chair:
got a little carried away
Last edited by Davedebogusone on Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By sg
#167889
Lets drop all the name calling please.
User avatar
By Paul H
#167890
My post was not tongue in cheek, I was very serious.
User avatar
By Jason
#167891
Paul H wrote:My post was not tongue in cheek, I was very serious.
i submitted a complaint to USHPA about his actions

attempting to hide information about an incident is not ok
User avatar
By Jason
#167893
Paul H wrote:Sounds like Brad Geary should have his rating reduced by the RD for failing to exercise a level of good judgment that a H4 should have.
http://www.ushpa.aero/forms/Form_Revoca ... uction.pdf

I'm willing to be the referrer

accidents happen, that's different from attempting to hid who's guidance a student was under at the time of an accident
User avatar
By Wingspan34
#167897
A little while back I looked over the City of San Diego's regulations pertaining to Torrey Pines Gliderport. Here are some interesting facts quoted from the San Diego Municipal Code.

§63.0201 Soaring or Gliding Regulated [**]

(a) Definitions.
“Full scale glider soaring” means flight by any motorless, heavier–than–air aircraft now known or hereafter invented, used or designed for navigation of or flight in the air in which the pilot, crew and passengers are carried internally within the frame of such aircraft.

“Hang gliding” means flight by any motorless, heavier–than– air contrivance now known or hereafter invented, used or designed for navigation of or flight in the air in which the pilot, crew and passengers are carried externally to the frame of such contrivance.

“Radio–controlled model glider operations” means flight by any unmanned motorless, heavier–than–air contrivance, now known or hereafter invented, used or designed for flight or navigation, which is controlled from the ground by radio signals.

(b) Any person who on any park, beach or other property owned or maintained by The City of San Diego conducts or participates in any soaring or gliding activity, including full scale gliding, hang gliding, and operation of radio– controlled model gliders, in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property, or without first obtaining a permit from the City, or whose permit has been revoked or suspended is guilty of a misdemeanor. [emph. add.]
You will note that there is absolutely no reference to "Paragliding" in the included definitions. And I would defy a person to show me the frame from which a paraglider pilot is suspended. Simply put, paragliding activity is taking place at Torrey Pines Gliderport outside the activities permitted by the City.

As a result, any paragliding activity at the site takes place "without first obtaining a permit". In addition, since Jebbville is obviously in the business of selling PG equipment, lessons and promoting PG flight activities, they would also, and implicitly, be "in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property" when one of their PG students crashes into and causes physical damage to people and/or their personal property. Hence, those responsible for such activity [ as defined above by §63.0201(b) ] are in CRIMINAL violation of the law. Very Serious Business here!

In NYS, I know that a person can file criminal charges against a party without going through the police (in case the San Diego Police were to refuse such a complaint). A person can write up their own Criminal Complaint Form (including witness statements) and present them directly to the (in this case, City) Court. This may also be possible/likely within California law.

Obviously, the (mainly PG centric) Torrey crew has chosen to play hard ball with the local "fairness for hang glider pilots" faction. Perhaps it's time for our side to firm up the balls they throw around?

BTW - I would actually make an attempt to file a criminal complaint based on the contents of the (below linked) San Diego code. The police or DA may not accept the complaint. However, that then establishes, and puts onto the record (finally!!!), that (dangerous) PG activities are taking place at Torrey Pines Gliderport outside the City's allowed and/or permitted (i.e., as defined) soaring activities.

To have a complaint on record, shows the City is aware of the situation and the (regularly occurring) criminal acts related to those activities. To not address the situation, opens them up to serious liability. (and this is not good for anyone)

I would hope that the culmination of such a process would be that the way that PG activities are conducted at the TP Gliderport would be seriously investigated. The first step being that the City's code would be updated to include a definition of "Paragliding", so that that activity would no longer be conducted in a (legally) "renegade" manner.

ALSO, (next step) if the activity of paragliding was added to the permitted uses of this City park, it is clear that the SAFE conduct of such activities would (finally!!!) NEED to be considered in regard to each of the other users of the park - including knowledgeable hang gliding users. Such an investigation would be the perfect time to reevaluate the minimal PG and hang gliding regulations as well as other, (like beach landing) rules.



** Source: http://docs.sandiego.gov/municode/MuniC ... sion02.pdf
Last edited by Wingspan34 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
By Jason
#167899
Wingspan34 wrote:A little while back I looked over the City of San Diego's regulations pertaining to Torrey Pines Gliderport. Here are some interesting facts quoted from the San Diego Municipal Code.

§63.0201 Soaring or Gliding Regulated

(a) Definitions.
“Full scale glider soaring” means flight by any motorless, heavier–than–air
aircraft now known or hereafter invented
, used or designed for navigation of
or flight in the air in which the pilot, crew and passengers are carried
internally within the frame of such aircraft
.

“Hang gliding” means flight by any motorless, heavier–than– air contrivance
now known or hereafter invented, used or designed for navigation of or flight
in the air in which the pilot, crew and passengers are carried externally to the frame of such contrivance.

“Radio–controlled model glider operations” means flight by any unmanned
motorless, heavier–than–air contrivance, now known or hereafter invented,
used or designed for flight or navigation, which is controlled from the ground
by radio signals.

(b) Any person who on any park, beach or other property owned or maintained by The City of San Diego conducts or participates in any soaring or gliding
activity
, including full scale gliding, hang gliding, and operation of radio–
controlled model gliders, in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of
persons or property, or without first obtaining a permit from the City,
or whose permit has been revoked or suspended is guilty of a misdemeanor. [emph. add.]
see red


this isn't about PG, its about withholding information necessary on an accident report form
By gluesniffer
#167902
good job jason!

sg- a incidence database would be good. It is one of the only things I look for in the magazine all these years. :thumbsup:
User avatar
By fireforthall
#167904
SG,

What is the possability of putting most of the forms fron USHPA on here in a easy to get area?

This could go along with a documentaion area on here also.
User avatar
By CHassan
#167905
Paul H wrote:My post was not tongue in cheek, I was very serious.
Mine was.
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