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Announce and track hang gliding events
By Flyrigid
#403797
‘18 Mingus Mt. Labor Day Fly-In! Experience the fabulous escape from the desert heat of our premier central Arizona launch/campground at 7800’- August 31 through September 3, but come as early and stay as late you like. Which will you need most- oxygen or rain gear? Altitudes of 17,999' have happened in mid-September. Either way, bring warm clothes. $75/ pilot for all the campin’, flyin’, and hangin’ out you want, plus a meal ticket & T-shirt; extras available for your non-flyers. Your poor Fly-In misdirector is trying to line up entertainment, too, but needs help. Net proceeds support Magnificent Mingus Mountain!
User avatar
By Underdog
#403829
Hi Is Mingus one of those sites that sold it's soul to the local instructors need for insurance through the dastardly and wickedly ignorant USHPA...Is the Gestapo going to check my papers ?

Or

Can I just show up with a great attitude,gear and skill and hope for the flight of a lifetime without any hassle?
By Fletcher
#403833
Underdog
Twenty or more years ago there was a power hungry tribe that tried to rule with a big stick but they were short lived there.
The current locals just love to fly and welcome experienced pilots with open arms.
Mingus should be on every serious pilots bucket list.
Go early and stay late if you can for some epic high altitude fun along with a party at a site you won't forget.
Two wheel drive road to launch with an awesome private (pilots and guests only) National Forest Service campground.
Bring o2 and warm clothes if you want to get Real High!!
Hope you decide to go
Fletcher
By cheesehead
#403840
Is the primary LZ still the airport? When I flew there in about '95, I had a great flight but landing at the airport was not cool yet. The LZ I had to use wasn't terrible, but it sure wasn't pleasant.
User avatar
By mtpilot
#403841
Underdog wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:24 am
Hi Is Mingus one of those sites that sold it's soul to the local instructors need for insurance through the dastardly and wickedly ignorant USHPA...Is the Gestapo going to check my papers ?

Or

Can I just show up with a great attitude,gear and skill and hope for the flight of a lifetime without any hassle?
I know this feeling, it has taken a lot of joy out of my flying. I would also like to attend, being and experienced mountain
pilot but don't want to drive all that way to be hassled.
By cheesehead
#403847
I now live near an aerotow operation. Pleasant, nice amenities, good vibes. And unlike the former guy who ran it, no one bothers to check your USHPA card or make you sign waivers. A damn nice change. The old operator insisted on full-face helmets and wouldn't allow wheels that could be disassembled. I've noticed a trend towards relaxed regulations at several sites in recent years. Much nicer than the days when every site required USHGA membership, ratings, waiver signing, helmet stickers. Big Sur is a great example. Used to have to register and get credentials checked out at forest ranger station. Now you just go thre and fly.
By pshorey
#403948
Can't wait to visit! Never been to Mingus, but flown some other big air. H3+. Been flying for 2.5yrs...

Do I really need oxygen to fly Mingus during the day? I've flown Dinosaur at the competition (just free-flying). All those guys had oxygen, but I have a particular talent for falling out of thermals, and staying safely low to the ground. :) Anyway, I can descend pretty darn fast in a corkscrew. So I'm planning to just come and have some fun. Flew King Mountain in Idaho, and went up so fast it felt like I was falling upward. Would love to experience that again!

Hoping it will be a successful and popular meet up.
User avatar
By aireout
#403950
Underdog wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:24 am
Hi Is Mingus one of those sites that sold it's soul to the local instructors need for insurance through the dastardly and wickedly ignorant USHPA...Is the Gestapo going to check my papers ?

Or

Can I just show up with a great attitude,gear and skill and hope for the flight of a lifetime without any hassle?
The US Forest Service Special Use Permit for the site requires that all users be USHPA members. This is for the minimum rating required and insurance. The only Gestapo action will be if a local club member asks about your rating and/or membership. I'm sorry if that ruins anyones idea of what a fun site is but it is what it is.
By once&future
#403951
pshorey wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:08 pm
Do I really need oxygen to fly Mingus during the day?
I'm sure the locals will chime in with better info, but Mingus didn't usually feel like a mandatory O2 site to me. I flew there maybe 12-15 times and typical altitudes were more in the 10-12K range (at least for me). I only hit 16K+ once (and that during midsummer monsoon weather) and 13-14 another time - the rest 12ish or less. Great site with interesting XC routes in lots of directions but it didn't usually seem to be a mega-altitude site Sandia, King or the OV.
User avatar
By red
#403952
pshorey wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:08 pm
Can't wait to visit! Never been to Mingus, but flown some other big air. H3+. Been flying for 2.5yrs... Do I really need oxygen to fly Mingus during the day? I've flown Dinosaur at the competition (just free-flying). All those guys had oxygen, but I have a particular talent for falling out of thermals, and staying safely low to the ground. :) Anyway, I can descend pretty darn fast in a corkscrew. So I'm planning to just come and have some fun. Flew King Mountain in Idaho, and went up so fast it felt like I was falling upward. Would love to experience that again! Hoping it will be a successful and popular meet up.
pshorey,

I've flown Mingus, and if you really need DOWN, please do not over-stress the glider by trying to corkscrew down. Anyway, that can take far too long.

Hold a vertical pole in one hand at arm's length, and make 40~50 fast turns around the pole. See how well that works out for you. :puke:
You can build up your tolerance for rapid turning with practice, but it won't happen overnight. Start today, don't make yourself sick, and add a few more turns each day. Turn both left and right, for your practice.
My advice: Use the vario instead to find some good sink first, and core that sink like you would core a nice thermal. It's 'WAY better for the glider, and maybe for your lunch.

Oxygen does not need to be at the far side of the Moon, in price. I'd really want some on board, for Mingus. You really do not need the latest, greatest, demand-type system. I have not used this tank, regulator and mask combo, but I have similar gear, and this is just to show you what is out there for the frugal shopper.

Here is a small tank, with a US$23.00 regulator (free shipping) on the same page.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006O8MOCO/re ... B006O8LMY0

This is an oxygen-saver mask, for about US$5.00 with free shipping. A slow, gentle flow fills the bag while you exhale, so you do not waste oxygen as you would with a free-flowing tube. A pendant type or mustache type Oxymizer will cost about US$20.00 ~30.00 each if you shop around.
https://www.amazon.com/Lightning-Oxygen ... NXMHZXRE5J
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By once&future
#403957
Red,

No arguments on proper techniques for coring sink nor on choice of O2 cannulae. I just wonder what your criteria are for needing or wanting to carry supplemental oxygen. One can argue that it's worthwhile whenever one is going to be over 10K for any period of time, but the extra weight and complexity were enough of a negative for me that I never bothered unless I expected to be over 14K for at least a half hour or so. In my most recent flying in the last few years I didn't go as high as in the old days, but still got to 12-14K several times and never felt like I missed the O2.
User avatar
By red
#403958
once&future wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:41 pm
Red,
No arguments on proper techniques for coring sink nor on choice of O2 cannulae. I just wonder what your criteria are for needing or wanting to carry supplemental oxygen. One can argue that it's worthwhile whenever one is going to be over 10K for any period of time, but the extra weight and complexity were enough of a negative for me that I never bothered unless I expected to be over 14K for at least a half hour or so. In my most recent flying in the last few years I didn't go as high as in the old days, but still got to 12-14K several times and never felt like I missed the O2.
Once&future,

The FAA requires oxygen for all pilots above 10,00 feet MSL. A brief sprint above that limit is legal, but not for long. Argue with the FAA at your own peril (and everybody else's, for that matter). I see nothing in FAA FAR 103 that gives us any extra leeway, there.

Realistically, your personal need for oxygen depends on how high your home neighborhood may be, MSL. I've had seacoast pilots here that are dizzy, with headaches, and puking ON LAUNCH in our mountains, and no, today is not a good day for you to fly, mate. Sit them down and feed them oxygen, and they are okay again in a while, but I need all that stuff back when I launch, right? 8) Local pilots who often fly here may be good to about 14,000 feet, but nobody at 14k' is going to leave the lift, usually, so I still recommend oxygen as required.

Having and using oxygen contributes greatly to your confidence and well-being, when 'way up there. Without it, you will soon be feeling anxious and uneasy, but you will not know why. Euphoria will be the the first symptom, though.

There was a time when I used an O2 cartridge system, like big CO2 cartridges but carrying oxygen instead. One time, on a high mountain flight, the cartridge ran dry, and there was no notice, except for a gauge reading Zero. I did not notice that. I found I was about 90 degrees off course, corrected that, and soon I was 90 degrees off course again. This was on a glider that would fly in straight lines for several minutes, hands off, so I corrected my course once again. Then I started checking things, and found that I could not count to 30 by threes. I was out of oxygen. I installed a fresh cylinder and all was well again, but except for a great feeling of euphoria, there was no way I could have said anything was off, when my oxygen was lacking.

Now we all know that there is only one Four-Of-Spades in any deck of cards. Check out Mr. Four-Of-Spades in an altitude chamber, and watch how many cards he mis-identifies in this video:
https://youtu.be/UN3W4d-5RPo

To your good health, then,
User avatar
By magentabluesky
#403959
Red,
First, your “recommendations” for oxygen use are very good “advice”, spot on.
red wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:45 pm
The FAA requires oxygen for all pilots above 10,00 feet MSL. A brief sprint above that limit is legal, but not for long. Argue with the FAA at your own peril (and everybody else's, for that matter). I see nothing in FAA FAR 103 that gives us any extra leeway, there.
As far as what the FAA requires for Part 103 operations, do you have a regulation reference for oxygen requirements?
User avatar
By red
#403962
magentabluesky wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:32 am
Red,
First, your “recommendations” for oxygen use are very good “advice”, spot on.
red wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:45 pm
The FAA requires oxygen for all pilots above 10,00 feet MSL. A brief sprint above that limit is legal, but not for long. Argue with the FAA at your own peril (and everybody else's, for that matter). I see nothing in FAA FAR 103 that gives us any extra leeway, there.
As far as what the FAA requires for Part 103 operations, do you have a regulation reference for oxygen requirements?
magentabluesky,

As I said, I see nothing about oxygen in FAR 103. There is a stated requirement for oxygen elsewhere in the regs, for all "persons."
I think that includes us. We don't really hail from Krypton, even when we think we might.
:lol:
I suppose you might argue that we do not fly "civil aircraft," but I still believe the risks outweigh the rewards.

https://www.gleim.com/aviation/faraim/? ... .89%28a%29
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User avatar
By magentabluesky
#403964
There are no oxygen requirements under Part 103 operations period. But Red’s recommendations and advice are sound.

The Gleim reference is for Part 135 covering On Demand Charter and Air Carrier Ops. Even though Commercial Hang Gliding rolls off the tongue of some in the free flight community, we don’t operate under Part 135 and Part 121. The 91.211 Supplemental oxygen reg says “No person may operate a civil aircraft of U.S. registry” (then the oxygen requirements). Under Part 103 we operate “ultralight vehicles” which are not registered. As long as your Hang Glider is not registered with the FAA, Part 91.211 does not apply. But for the Part 103 operator, those other regs are good advice with regard to oxygen use.

The FAA pretty much says when operating under Part 103, you take the responsibility and assume the risk.

How awesome is Part 103.
By brokenstrings
#403970
I would love to come to this fly in. Does anyone have a lead on a glider I could rent for the week. I’m an east coaster with big air experience but the lodgistics of getting my equipment out there is problematic. I have lots of reputable well known pilots who can vouch for me. I’m H3 and a basic instructor with 30 some unique sites across 10 states.

Please help, Mingus looks amazing! roostktm211@gmail.com
By brokenstrings
#403981
Great News! I have gotten a quote to send my U2 down to Phoenix via Pilot Freight Services for $181 one way. Drop off at their dock in Pittsburgh and pick up at their dock in Phoenix. This is for a box 155" x 20" x 20" with a weight of 150. I figure i will use light weight materials to build a box with will include my wing, harness, flying related items, tent, cloths and sleeping bag. Use the mentioned items to cocoon the wing as much as possible. This is a big piece to the puzzle completed.

I figure i can rent an SUV or minivan with a roof rack and lash it down to the top. I would like to spend a week down there and fly as much as possible.

This is my first time trying to ship my gear. Thoughts????
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