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By kukailimoku2
#401560
From the vid description...

"It's quite common to see pilots in Hong Kong impact the windsock and continue takeoff."

It is?

:wtf:
By blindrodie
#401566
I kept thinking that this was a new way to carry your wind indicator and that the pilot was being instructed to drop it.
The ol' death spear drop!! For safety ya realize...

8)
User avatar
By dbotos
#401582
I wonder if you could rig a small smoke-generating canister into a "drop vehicle". The drop vehicle would look like a small, squat bomb. A weighted nose and some tail fins would help guide it down to the ground in the proper orientation (although, the smoke could still escape through the tail exit even if it fell over). Once it touches down, just observe the direction of the smoke tail and set up your landing accordingly. A couple bucks for a smoke canister is still way cheaper than a downtube.
By blindrodie
#401583
There's a weighted drop flag that, after landing, allows the tail to lay out on the ground. It's colored red near the weighted bottom and green at the loose end. Line up on the green end and WHACK! If it just crumples up the wind is L/V/Nil.

No chance of a fire. Sorry I can't tell you where to get it but I know it's been talked about on here or the OR.

8)
By thermaleo
#401592
dbotos wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:01 pm
I wonder if you could rig a small smoke-generating canister into a "drop vehicle". The drop vehicle would look like a small, squat bomb. A weighted nose and some tail fins would help guide it down to the ground in the proper orientation (although, the smoke could still escape through the tail exit even if it fell over). Once it touches down, just observe the direction of the smoke tail and set up your landing accordingly. A couple bucks for a smoke canister is still way cheaper than a downtube.
Well this has been hashed out many times before, but no, dropping smoke bombs is crazy.
1 - They don't always work - in fact the failure rate is high.
2 -They are a fire hazard.
3 - It's highly illegal.
4- If you store it with your glider or harness you won't like it when it accidentally goes off - and yes, this has happened.
5 - It's an overly complicated, dangerous and unreliable solution to a simple problem.

The most foolproof method to determine wind direction in an LZ when there are no visible clues, is to drop one of those paper streamers used by crop dusters. They are dirt cheap <$1 each - -reusable, and biodegradable, and you can carry several of them.

Leo Jones
User avatar
By dbotos
#401644
thermaleo wrote:1 - They don't always work - in fact the failure rate is high.
Can you reference a study or video that gives a numerical failure rate? Was it a certain brand or lot? Were they stored properly?
thermaleo wrote:2 -They are a fire hazard.
The user would have to make a good decision on whether or not to use it in a given area based on the risk. This page documents some information about temperatures and effects on various flammable materials:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us
thermaleo wrote:3 - It's highly illegal.
Their general use or the fact that you're dropping it from a hang glider? Can you reference a statute?
thermaleo wrote:4- If you store it with your glider or harness you won't like it when it accidentally goes off - and yes, this has happened.
I think the wire-pull types are pretty safe. You have to remove a protective cap before you can even get to the pull ring. Can you cite instance(s) where someone had one go off accidentally?
thermaleo wrote:5 - It's an overly complicated, dangerous and unreliable solution to a simple problem.
All three of those assertions are subjective. I certainly wouldn't call it unreliable. As long as it's still belching out smoke while near ground level (which you could help ensure by putting it in a cage-like structure that keeps it off the ground and could also help with the fire risk), a dense plume of brightly colored smoke that doesn't get tangled in grass, brush, etc. seems pretty reliable.
thermaleo wrote:The most foolproof method to determine wind direction in an LZ when there are no visible clues, is to drop one of those paper streamers used by crop dusters. They are dirt cheap <$1 each - -reusable, and biodegradable, and you can carry several of them.
Can you post a link or two?
By thermaleo
#401645
We used smoke bombs 20+ years ago. I think I dropped 4 - 2 didn't work. If they don't work there isn't much time to do much else. Yes it's illegal to drop anything like this. Yes they are a fire hazard - drop one in CA right now and they'd probably string you up! . A pilot had one go off in his harness - large burned holes and bright orange smoke powder everywhere. Lucky it didn't set fire to his car too. :ahh:
See here for auto flag streamers -
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/sonomaw ... t5360.html

K.I.S.S.

Leo
dbotos wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:05 pm
thermaleo wrote:1 - They don't always work - in fact the failure rate is high.
Can you reference a study or video that gives a numerical failure rate? Was it a certain brand or lot? Were they stored properly?
thermaleo wrote:2 -They are a fire hazard.
The user would have to make a good decision on whether or not to use it in a given area based on the risk. This page documents some information about temperatures and effects on various flammable materials:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us
thermaleo wrote:3 - It's highly illegal.
Their general use or the fact that you're dropping it from a hang glider? Can you reference a statute?
thermaleo wrote:4- If you store it with your glider or harness you won't like it when it accidentally goes off - and yes, this has happened.
I think the wire-pull types are pretty safe. You have to remove a protective cap before you can even get to the pull ring. Can you cite instance(s) where someone had one go off accidentally?
thermaleo wrote:5 - It's an overly complicated, dangerous and unreliable solution to a simple problem.
All three of those assertions are subjective. I certainly wouldn't call it unreliable. As long as it's still belching out smoke while near ground level (which you could help ensure by putting it in a cage-like structure that keeps it off the ground and could also help with the fire risk), a dense plume of brightly colored smoke that doesn't get tangled in grass, brush, etc. seems pretty reliable.
thermaleo wrote:The most foolproof method to determine wind direction in an LZ when there are no visible clues, is to drop one of those paper streamers used by crop dusters. They are dirt cheap <$1 each - -reusable, and biodegradable, and you can carry several of them.
Can you post a link or two?
User avatar
By red
#401649
I saw a commercial ad for smoke bombs, just a few years ago. Talk about the reliability, fire hazard, et c. if you like, but these units (for NO good reason) looked exactly like WW-II era USA fragmentation grenades.

If anybody saw you with one (or more), you might not want to have all the fun involved with being arrested as a terrorist. Only a total fool would believe that you have a smoke bomb there, and not what it appears to be. On any transportation system, it would still be classed as an incendiary device, so good luck there.
User avatar
By dbotos
#401678
thermaleo wrote:See here for auto flag streamers -
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/sonomaw ... t5360.html
Leo,

Thanks for the link. It was nice to see them used in the videos. I might have to make some and try them at an LZ with other wind indicators to see how well I can read them. I've always liked the idea of having a contrasting-color tail end to make it easier to read, like these wind socks:

https://www.advance.ch/en/products/acce ... /windsock/

David
User avatar
By remmoore
#401930
Years ago, I made a collapsible streamer stick which stores in my harness side pocket. When collapsed, it's about 14" long and has a loop handle at the top. The collapsed stick is in a tubular sleeve tethered inside the pocket - all I need do is unzip the pocket just a bit, grab the handle and pull it out. I have a small bungee attached to hold the stick in the collapsed position. With a flick of my thumb, the stick opens and automatically assembles itself, guided by an internal bungee which holds it all together in tension. When assembled, the stick is about 56" long.

The two streamers are nearly 3' long. One is fluorescent orange - the typical flagging tape. The second is a thin mylar "space tape" - highly reflective silver prisms. Between the two, I have a high-visibility streamer, which tells me wind direction the entire time it's deployed, not just in the moment it comes to earth. I can see it and determine wind direction from as high as 1000' AGL.

I rarely use it, preferring to use any available ground-based resources (trees, bushes, grasses, water, etc.) the vast majority of the time. It's been a couple of years since I've needed it, for example. I also only use it when landing in very rural fields at the end of an XC flight. On the occasions when I've needed it however, it's been terrific.

RM
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User avatar
By NMERider
#401931
remmoore wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:21 am
Years ago, I made a collapsible streamer stick....
Robert,
As usual you have delivered a clever and practical device. One of many. Keep up the good work.
And now for the bad news. Your device violates the FARs. Similar devices have cost the sport access to important LZs when the land owner's animals were endangered by a similar streamer pole dropped by visiting pilots. Here is the rule:
Subpart B--Operating Rules
Sec. 103.9 Hazardous operations.
(a) No person may operate any ultralight vehicle in a manner that creates
a hazard to other persons or property.
(b) No person may allow an object to be dropped from an ultralight
vehicle if such action creates a hazard to other persons or property.
User avatar
By remmoore
#401932
NMERider wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:29 am
remmoore wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:21 am
Years ago, I made a collapsible streamer stick....
Robert,
As usual you have delivered a clever and practical device. One of many. Keep up the good work.
And now for the bad news. Your device violates the FARs. Similar devices have cost the sport access to important LZs when the land owner's animals were endangered by a similar streamer pole dropped by visiting pilots. Here is the rule:
Subpart B--Operating Rules
Sec. 103.9 Hazardous operations.
(a) No person may operate any ultralight vehicle in a manner that creates
a hazard to other persons or property.
(b) No person may allow an object to be dropped from an ultralight
vehicle if such action creates a hazard to other persons or property.
Hi Jon,

Yes, I was aware of the FAR long before I built it - naughty me!
I've heard of silly pilots dropping such devices into standard bailout LZ's - right next to the dedicated windsock. Like so many things, misuse of this could actually get someone in trouble.

RM
Last edited by remmoore on Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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