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By HangDog
I just want to say that if there was anything I've ever said to offend anyone or any arguments that were never cleared of misty air lingering around on some of my threads, *I apologize to all*

In the last two years I started out larger then life and accomplished what I set out to do in completing my hang gliding training back in 09. I set out and told people how I wanted to have my own wing and have my own gear to fly and I made that happen too. The biggest thing I had on my list was to fly POTM, I talked to people on here about it for months and then I told people I was coming out to POTM.

It was kind of funny but most didn't really believe that and not because they didn't like me or thought I was BS's but rather because it would be a huge feat for someone who lives in Florida without a lot of money to just pack up and head 2200 miles across the country all the while driving an older car with almost 500,000 mile on it! Well guess what? I made that happen too.

I have come to what seems like the end of the line for me... Oh believe me I have done all I could in the past year and going above and beyond the call of duty if you will and to no success in making things better for myself so that I can continue flying and enjoying what I love the most, what all of us here love the most and for what all of us are here on the org in the first place, I don't need to say anymore about this because you all know what I'm talking about.

I'm at the lowest point of my life I've ever been in and never thought I would be here in this position let alone writing this as I am now to all of you.

I'm tired of spending a lot of hours living in my car only to take a shower at my Mother's home when I need too. I live on food stamps and have a piss pore part time job I help a private individual keeping the grass green (landscaping), I make a measly few bucks a week to stay alive. I have dozens of applications out there and have many replied from companies telling me they can't hire me or that I'm over qualified or some other excuse.

Maybe it's because I'm 46? maybe I look like someone who ran over their dog or maybe it's just because this economy is worse then we all think it really is?

Well I can say this, I have never had a problem getting work or having a job but again in the past two years something has put a stop against me like water trying to run over top of the great hoover dam! I don't understand it and have given up on trying to understand all of this mess.

I owe money I can't pay back which I've never had this problem either! I owe someone on here some money who helped me out when I was in Utah, who was very kind and didn't have to help me. Yes we might of had a couple of arguments, he didn't understand me and I didn't understand him so there was some friction but deep down I never meant any harm at all to this man and wanted to pay him back because I really care and owed him this much at least for helping me but in the past year this never came about and for that, if you are reading this (you know who you are) I am sorry. One day I will repay you and I'll do it with pride.

Anyway, I'm hoping to sell my stuff so others can enjoy it as I have enjoyed it.
It's all good quality and has been a proven hot seller in it's day.

And for those who dislike me due to conversations on here? I wish you all the best.

For those I've met in person? I can say that I really enjoyed our time together in the sky and wish you all the very best and smooth winds.

To all the new guys and gals coming up in this sport? Be safe, (safety first), Keep the faith and stay healthy so you can fly forever!.

I wish all of you here and especially SG for all his hard work too in making this place what it is today for all hang glider and PG pilots as we are all after the same thing.

Peace to all! again, I apologize for my sometimes snappy and rude gestures but please rest assure I have never been that way.

I'm ashamed at myself right now for letting myself get into this situation but I can only do so much as a human being.

I have no came to the conclusion and believe that bad luck really does happen in the life, I've just experienced it and if it's not about luck then I can only assume it's something greater keeping me where I'm at in life right now for other reasons only to be found out when I leave this planet as we know it.

You don't have to reply here, I'm not sitting back anymore watching who replies and what they say out of curiosity to this thread, this is not meant for conversation. I'm just letting you all know I'm sorry for anything I may have upset you with and that I enjoyed my stay here for whatever that's worth.

With that in mind, Peace and God Bless you all.

User avatar
By ChattaroyMan
46 - you're a 'spring chicken'! Hey, life has its ups and downs. Without the downs there would be no ups (can't have lift everywhere or we wouldn't come back to Earth). Get out and socialize - anywhere. The more people you contact the more opportunities arise. Want to work somewhere? - show up there every day ready to work - whether they are hiring or not. Farms and landscaping outfits always need new help. Keep looking up! A 'hawk' will show up and show you the way. One thing I've learned with all of my flying is that there is always lift out there somewhere. But, if you're not out you'll not find it.

Good luck buddy, hope you hook one! :thumbsup:
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By wilburleft
Man, sounds like some rough times. It's hard to climb out of the hole when you have to worry about basic needs like food, shelter, shower. I'm not religious, but a hispanic friend once said to me "diosito no quiere eso para ti" when something didn't go my way. The literal translation is "god doesn't want that for you." Maybe it's because it was in spanish that I didn't reject it as religious crap. But it stuck with me. For me it means that there's another path that's meant for me, and it helps me think positive and move forward. Things will get better Hangdog, believe it.
By noman3
man hangdog i know how you feel and yes its the economy.Hey man come out to mcclure,there is a trailer park right at the base of the moun tain and its only 80 dollars a month for rent.Electricity is free and so is the water.There is plenty of equipment sitting around to keep u in the air.Its a shame to hear your quitting the one thing that sets u free.Come hang out with us derelicts,we won t judge you.

Your good friend brian
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By axo
Don't give up man. Selling your gear and dumping one of the things that you love is not the answer.. you will just eat it away if you sell your stuff.
I have been in a bad economic situation myself for more than a year, not as bad as you but it is depriving me from flying.

As said before, knock on every door and meet new people all the time. In this country i have learn it is not what your resume and qualifications dictate what you can do, but WHO you know.
Try to think positive and that it is just a bad temporary moment, believe something good its gonna happen all the time, even if you feel like lying to yourself or stupid about it, it pushes some internal buttons in your brain that are locking you right now from getting the positive things to happen.

You still have access to internet... search your local craigslist for opportunities, print fliers and pass them at every door in your city offering your landscaping or whatever else services you can, become independent while you meet new people until you find someone who can connect you to a better opportunity. Just don't give up or get frustrated, fight! :punch:
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By Darbbb
Also, check with your local community college. There are lots of careers that still have high demand for job applicants (such as medical technician), that you can train for sometimes within a year or so. I used to teach at a comm college, and many of the students are our age (I'm 50), doing just what I describe--retooling so as to start off in a new direction.
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By JV-Joe
ChattaroyMan wrote:One thing I've learned with all of my flying is that there is always lift out there somewhere. But, if you're not out you'll not find it.

Good luck buddy, hope you hook one! :thumbsup:
noman3 wrote:Hey man come out to mcclure,there is a trailer park right at the base of the moun tain and its only 80 dollars a month for rent.Electricity is free and so is the water.... Come hang out with us derelicts,we won t judge you.

Your good friend brian

i agree, don't sell your gear. your going to miss it and kick yourself for it. keep it for inspiration, and just to get away. i agree with all the replies on here. I'm half your age and maybe naive right now, but i know that there will always be "UPS AND DOWNS" Brian is right, the McClure crowd are a bunch of humble and down to earth guys that will take you in with open arms. And i passed by that trailer park and its a nice site. If nothing else goes your way, maybe California is the answer!
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By SeeMarkFly
Dude, hang on to your stuff.
The price you can get for it will not equal the cost to replace it later.

The ONLY problem you have is money.

There is a great shadow of greed on this country right now.
Starve the bankers, then we will all be OK.
User avatar
By hpyatcldbs
Keep youre head up man.Things are tough for alot of people right now.
Try not to getr rid of youre flying stuff.I know for me that is what keeps me going.When i am in the air i can disconnect with the problems of life.The flying community is a tight one and there is someone always willing to help someone that is down on thier luck.
Keep youre head up and try have a positive attitude.Something WILL change for the better and keep flying. Our sport has some of the most down to earth people i know.Surround youreself with good people and something good will come of it.
Dont give up!!!
Give Nomans offer a thought.They sound like a great bunch of people.
What a deal
User avatar
By Dan Harding
yep, get the hell-outta-florida, its one of the hardest hit places, the house market sucks there, and that trickels down to many other things. try contractors that work in the power plants, refineries, wood mills, there are many areas you may not have explored yet. I know its hard to keep a positive attitude when you wonder where your next meal will come from, i've been there and done that , I lived in a van for a couple years before things turned around for me.

Just Hang in there :thumbsup:
By day dreamer
noman3 wrote:man hangdog i know how you feel and yes its the economy.Hey man come out to mcclure,there is a trailer park right at the base of the moun tain and its only 80 dollars a month for rent.Electricity is free and so is the water.There is plenty of equipment sitting around to keep u in the air.Its a shame to hear your quitting the one thing that sets u free.Come hang out with us derelicts,we won t judge you.

Your good friend brian
Some of my flying buddies at my hootch at Shore Fun Park. I love to sit in there and read my old HG mags and listen to silence. You are not alone HangDog. If you have no ties, come on down brother. Life sucks, but flying doesn't.
IMG_0053_2.JPG (98.69 KiB) Viewed 4318 times
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By FlyingTechGuy
Hey Bro, you're not alone, and you're not imagining it. The economy and the job situation truly sucks.

The thing is, if someone has not been at your level of desperation, they don't know what you're going through. I have been there. Besides eating, health insurance can be non-existent too and that's something else to deal with.

The situation is dire for a lot of folks right now. If you are a nurse or another high-demand occupation, you're in pretty good shape. But for the rest, not so much. Record numbers of people have been forced from their homes through foreclosures too.

I realize that does not put money in your pocket, but it reinforces the fact that you are not alone. I am going through an extremely tough time myself as well. So believe me, I understand.

I see that you've now put your gear up for sale. I know folks are saying not to sell your gear and I understand why. But if you have to eat, it's understood. You have to do what you have to do to recover financially. There will be another wing out there for you when you are back on your feet - and - the sky will still be there.

Just don't put the dream away for good. Adopt a spirit of revenge regarding your situation that you WILL come back, you will conquer your circumstances, and you will be back - some how, some way. Do not go quietly into that financial night.

Wishing the best for you on your journey. Have faith that there are brighter days ahead, and kick every thought that contradicts that to the curb.
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By HangDog
I appreciate all the replies. I didn't want to sit back and just ignore you guys so I must reply cause it would be rude if I didn't.

When I was in Utah it was going pretty good, I was flying and had lots of interviews for work. There wasn't anything for sure at the time but the point was that I had more luck with interviews out there then I ever did here where I'm at now in the past hoping to land a job.

It was starting to look up and I just had that feeling that something was going to happen for the best. I went to Utah in the first place to start a new life I guess you could say, had POTM to fly at and was looking forward to soaring some of the more well known peaks in the near future as we were just waiting for the snow to melt away, knew some really good people one in particular who I met the first day I arrived there, (the person I was talking to for months before I even left here) at the point.

He came up to me, shook my hand and was tickled I was actually standing there after all my talk about driving out there. I had originally planned to stay at the point (live there) in my car but he wouldn't allow that and then to my surprise he helped me out even more by putting a roof over my head as a room mate. I was the one who was then tickled and didn't know what to say except for Thanks.

Well again during this time I was flying and looking for work because I didn't feel right living with someone and not helping out with everyday living expenses so I made it a mission to get a job.

Then the terrible day arrived, a day I never thought would happen to me, oh I knew it could and knew something could happen even worse so I accepted those thoughts of course because as we all fly we know that we don't have any choice one we leave the ground and know in our sport that things can and sometimes will happen.

This was the day I broke my arm after flying the point for almost 3 hrs straight.

WOW I broke my arm!!! 46 and never had a broken bone! maybe had one or two broken bones in my head, maybe my mother dropped me on my head hell I don't know but I never had a broken bone. I couldn't believe it!.

Then after I got home (to my friends house) from the hospital a few miles away the pills set in and I finally realized how can someone in my position who meant well, wanted to succeed in life with a new outlook and *positive* take on life in general have such a streak of luck? I was pist, upset and in disbelief of what happen because I was getting so close to landing that job.

Well needless to say, now I was feeling even worse emotionally especially since now with a broken arm I was basically out of commission from everything. I couldn't work, fly or especially repay this man who helped me out and for that, It really made me feel like s***.

So now imagine how you would feel if after making the promise to yourself to help out as a room mate and repay the one person who went out of their way to help you who didn't really know you? That's what I was really amazed about, how good people can help others they don't even know, well I said to myself *I want that too* I want to help and know how that feels to help someone too.

I couldn't sit there anymore like that not doing anything and laid up and it wasn't right for me to take advantage of it so again this person helped me with gas money to get back home here where I am now.

Now here's the other side of that coin, There was one very serious issue which also came about during this time of my broken wing, I got a phone call from a relative that one very special person in my life was heading for the hospital and that being my Mother.

Imagine that!!! after all this crap that has just happened to me and now even more issues arise! Holy crap batman!! well being I've always been mobile and my four sisters are mostly tied down from traveling I made the decision to pack up and head back to where I came from, 2200 miles back only this time I was driving my standard shift vehicle with one arm, a bottle of pills and on a wing and a prayer! man what a trip that was!

Anyway, I got back here on July 4th night 2010 at 11pm My mother was in OK shape, not the best but I was here to help her with what I could so I stayed here nursing my arm and helping her.

During this time of course I had to wait even longer now due to my arm, I couldn't work for the next few months so more time of no work building up looking bad on a resume. People wonder why one doesn't work for a long period of time and maybe this has something to do with my situation as well.

It's tough to explain what happened and what I learned is you don't want to mention you fly hang gliders either on an application because it will deter your employer from hiring you due to the risk involved and for that matter when you mention you broke an arm they get a little uneasy too. I haven't told anyone about this or ever put these two items on an app so I had to wait a longer period of time to make sure my arm was healed as much as possible so I wouldn't have any probs at all on a job. If something happen then I would have to tell them it was broken in the past and that wouldn't of been good at all, probably instant termination of your job if that would happen so It had to be stronger then just a few weeks of healing.

The reason I wanted to sell my gear is simple. I pay 85.00 a month for a storage unit to keep my wing covered. I don't have anywhere else to keep it and can't buy a pipe to keep it in outside somewhere so basically I'm paying for a wing I can't use but I have to keep it in storage. I don't mind it at all and never had a problem but only because I was working before and had income.

I still don't know what to do and again I appreciate all the concerns and ideas but to be honest with you all, I have done most all of these and more. So this is why I mentioned about there must be bad luck against me somewhere.

I still need to try and sell my gear as well as I have some other things for sale too like scuba gear and stuff so I need to get all I can. If I have to wait for a while to fly then so be it. The sky will still be there and then maybe that will give me a chance to get a new glider one day which is what we all like to have anyway. I just don't know anymore.

Thanks again everyone, I have some serious thinking to do in the next few days here and right now I'm about brain drained with all this stuff.
Last edited by HangDog on Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
By FlyingTechGuy
If I were you I would IMMEDIATELY delete the picture of that letter off of the Org. That can be very detrimental to you
By oden
How did you get to POTM??? Think long and hard about the question.

Do the same thing now. Stop and ask yourself what you want/want to do. Write it down. Follow the same steps you took on getting to POTM. You succeeded before and if you follow the same steps your bound to succeed again.

Two lessons I have learnt and keep seeing creep up all the time:

1. BE VERY SPECIFIC on what you want. If you generalize it, you will get generalized results. For example, I want to go to POTM. You made it there didn't you.

Did you say anything more, or did you stop right there and not finish the rest of the statement. How long did you want to spend there? What did you want to do once you got to POTM, not only flying but also working/making money. Again, BE VERY SPECIFIC. The more specific the better.

2. Don't ask a stupid question or you'll get a brilliant answer, it may not be the answer you want and you may not get the answer the way you want to get it, but you'll always get an answer.

Right now is the time to look inside and decide what you want if not you'll get what your already getting. Is that what you want...it doesn't sound like it.

I've learnt their are many ways of accomplishing the same goal. Don't look at the obvious answers and you might be surprised how quickly you find the solution to your problem and it may not take selling anything. For example, I know your in a REAL bad location for HGing, Tallahassee(talk about the middle of nowhere's ville). You say you can afford the $85 to store the glider anymore what if you didn't have to sell it and didn't have to pay the storage. Would you consider keeping it? Yeah, you are in crummy location for my suggestion. I'll mention it anyways. You never know, maybe for your benefit or anyone else's.

Do you know of anyone that is getting into HGing that doesn't want/isn't able to spend all that much money on a glider. Let him borrow your glider for a while to get more hours under his wing. He now deals with storage and may have a garage or barn to put it in and you don't have to pay the storage anymore. He agrees, in writing, that he is borrowing it. You still own it. You can come back and reclaim it at any time. You might be surprised with the economy the way it is the number of people that may take you up on the offer. Both you and the other person now win. You want to help people out, this may very well be a way you can do it.
By Phoenix
Hang Dog, Brother,

Its just a Hang Glider, its not your soul. You decided to keep your soul when
you told that HR bimbo to PHUCK OFF.

Now, your a pilot, you know: flee the sink, find the lift, stay in it! Maybe you get
drilled and have to land. There is always a way to get up again.

Your soul knows how to fly, you don't need a glider for that. So just do
what you need to, keep your eyes on the horizon, light touch, make a
few gental course corrections.

Myself, after the one day in the sun in my whole life, when a complete
stranger talked to me as if I were an actual human being, completely
unafraid and genuinly empathetic, that was a great gift! Knowing that
there was JUST ONE such person on earth, I never, ever got that low

You will find a way, or that way will find you. TRUST! :thumbsup:
User avatar
By Hangskier

If you have been landscaping and use to manual labor, I'm sure I can get you a job here in NC with a buddy that has a tree service. This area just had hurricane Irene come through and really tore up some trees that will last quite awhile. This guy works hard and has 2 helpers now and I'm sure could use another. Your arm will need to be completly healed though. I'm also pretty sure I can find you a place to stay. This guy use to fly gliders back in the 80's. He still has his 2 gliders and wants his son to learn to fly. As far as glider storage, thats no problem. Also I fly at Currituck Airport which is 1 1/2 hr drive.

As far as the guy giving you a place to stay and you wanting to repay him; well, that's what friends, family, and spouses do. Help one another out in times of need. We all need help at some point.

It sounds like you mom could use your help and that is a noble thing to do as well. It's not like helping your mom out while you get on your feet will be forever. Just find some where to store your glider that does not cost anything and where you will not need to get at it for awhile.

Just a couple ideas.
User avatar
By TommyT
Seems no matter how hard I get slapped around(on finale) ,if I keep my eyes where I want to go.

User avatar
By spork
oden wrote:How did you get to POTM??? Think long and hard about the question.

Do the same thing now. Stop and ask yourself what you want/want to do. Write it down. Follow the same steps you took on getting to POTM. You succeeded before and if you follow the same steps your bound to succeed again.
Listen to this man. This is the best advice you could get. If you really want to work, and you're willing to show up every day, on time, and make things happen, you'll get work and move ahead in any economy. I've seen it a hundred times. It has to be a real goal that you really want to make happen.

This is basically the advice I give all new managers. Treat your project at work like you would if it were your own project at home and you can hardly fail.

I'll bet when you set out to get to POTM you didn't worry about whether something was unfair or you had bad luck. That's just sh!t that happens on the way to reaching your goals.

Incidentally, the best advice I was ever given (about 15 years ago now) - nothing is ever as good or bad as it seems. I know it sounds trite, but I think of it often - and find it to be very true.

Also, if you manage to get a crappy job - do a spectacular job for them, and pay attention to what's happening all around you. If you show up on time, are reliable, and solve problems for people - you move ahead. I wouldn't lie to you. It has nothing to do with politics or luck.
User avatar
By Skeeter
Hangdog i have never met you before but i dont like to hear of anyone going through these types of lows. But things will get better. You really should take these Mc Clure pilots seriously as they are top quality people and pilots. If you decide to make the move but cant afford a flight i am willing to pay for your flight and im sure one of the local pilots would have no problems picking you up. :goodidea:
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