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User avatar
By Jason
#195852
Holger wrote:
Jason wrote:hell for all i know.....Bob himself violated the contract......
OK, can you support your accusation with facts?
its not an accusation...merely professing a lack of understanding of what went on between the two companies that caused them to go their seperate ways- how anyone could read that as an accusation is beyond me

Jason wrote:7k for a kingposted glider......is not a competitive product....I can buy a T2 for 1000 dollars less with way more performance.....and pick it up sooner, and have parts available anywhere in the country
Are you comparing your 10-year-old Sensor with a T2, or have you actually flown a new Sensor to know how it compares? Certainly, a king-posted glider will never be as fast as a topless, but unless you race or do serious cross country stuff, that's way less interesting then i.e. how it circles in weak thermals or how nicely it can be landed.
the newest sensor I flew was the topless- I saw the 710 description and 7k doesn't seem worth it for a glider that almost performs as well as the old 610....

My point is we've seen almost all hang glider producers vanish here in the US. There are now three or so left, and none of them is making easy money. Before I criticize one of them I really try to be fair about it.
im not criticizing him....people are free to buy his product....I've flown it for years....it is a quality product....but now i can get more for less..and get it sooner
User avatar
By Jason
#195874
Holger wrote:
Jason wrote:if Bob has a problem with it......he has a written agreement and can do something about it
He did the only thing he could do: ask the HG community to support him in this case. International legal actions aren't an option for a company of the size of Seedwings, Inc.
but international contracts are?

Has he formally requested royalties?

after all thats what the contract states---if they don't change their name. he will "fairly" request royalties- if he hasn't....well....thats on him
User avatar
By BubbleBoy
#195875
Jason, I don't buy the "it's all on Bob" argument.

Sometimes a market is just too small to prove damages that will be higher than lawyer fees. This doesn't mean that Bob doesn't WANT to do something about it, just that it doesn't work financially.

If the above is true (and I don't know that it is), it's quite fair for pilots to feel that they should not do business with someone who has 'stolen' from another even though no legal action was taken.

JB
User avatar
By Jason
#195877
BubbleBoy wrote:Jason, I don't buy the "it's all on Bob" argument.

Sometimes a market is just too small to prove damages that will be higher than lawyer fees. This doesn't mean that Bob doesn't WANT to do something about it, just that it doesn't work financially.

If the above is true (and I don't know that it is), it's quite fair for pilots to feel that they should not do business with someone who has 'stolen' from another even though no legal action was taken.

JB
that may all be true--- but all ive heard is hearsay and im not going to judge them guilty on that alone
User avatar
By Holger
#195892
Jason wrote:Has he formally requested royalties?
Yes, he requested royalties in '93 shortly before the terms of the agreement expired.
User avatar
By Jason
#195893
Holger wrote:
Jason wrote:Has he formally requested royalties?
Yes, he requested royalties in '93 shortly before the terms of the agreement expired.
can this be proven?
User avatar
By Holger
#195897
Jason wrote:can this be proven?
Bob told me that personally, and I have no reason to doubt his word.
User avatar
By Jason
#195902
Holger wrote:
Jason wrote:can this be proven?
Bob told me that personally, and I have no reason to doubt his word.
that may well be true...but it is still just one side of the story

and to me- by definition its hearsay-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay
User avatar
By Holger
#195907
Jason wrote:that may well be true...but it is still just one side of the story
I'm not arguing this, Jason.
User avatar
By Jason
#195909
Holger wrote:
Jason wrote:that may well be true...but it is still just one side of the story
I'm not arguing this, Jason.
did you not say?
Holger wrote: Before I criticize one of them I really try to be fair about it.

surely the same applies to a company that is overseas
User avatar
By Holger
#195917
And I have no problem with you being cautious and asking for the facts before criticizing the other side. As long as you're equally cautious while criticizing Bob we're good.
User avatar
By Jason
#195921
Holger wrote:And I have no problem with you being cautious and asking for the facts before criticizing the other side. As long as you're equally cautious while criticizing Bob we're good.
i truly don't think i have criticized him

the economies of scale simply make it almost impossible for him to compete with say WW on a cost basis
User avatar
By FMAN
#198046
Yosemite sometimes,

This photo is from the 1950's era. A huge pile of burning logs was shoved off the cliff to create a waterfall on fire effect. Needless to say, they were unaware or oblivious to the damages, insignificant as it might have seemed at the time, it is poor conduct in our National Park.

I have edited this post to explain the similarity of this behavior in the hope to keep integrity in the history of hang gliding.
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Last edited by FMAN on Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
By day dreamer
#198101
FMAN wrote:Yosemite sometimes,
I thought they stopped doing that.
User avatar
By Jason
#198112
day dreamer wrote:
FMAN wrote:Yosemite sometimes,
I thought they stopped doing that.
yes (thankfully) they have-what this has to do with seedwings I don't know
User avatar
By FMAN
#198114
Another view :mrgreen:
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User avatar
By Zeph
#202428
Seedwings USA still makes some of the sexiest wings out there, Clear back to the 510B, I loved that glider. I hope Bob does well and is enjoying his nitch. Zeph
User avatar
By Holger
#202449
Wow, Jason, that is one cool avatar!!
User avatar
By Jason
#202466
Holger wrote:Wow, Jason, that is one cool avatar!!
thanks, that was my first really good flight here in Colorado....I wish i had a camera on yesterday when I was upside down over Blue River Resevoir at 12k :shock:

well a video camera i mean
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By noman3
#202470
nice picture man!
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