.

.

All things hang gliding. This is the main forum. New users, introduce yourself.

Moderators: sg, mods

User avatar
By red
#141449
CAL,

Most harness zippers in pods are installed with Velcro. You can ease your mind about a zipper getting jammed by going to the fabric store, and buying some new Velcro. It comes in black, white, and colors. Peel the existing Velcro (and zipper) partially out of the harness, and install a "dummy" strip (or strips) of new Velcro, where the zipper Velcro meets the harness Velcro. The new "dummy" strip should engage the zipper Velcro. You can use either the hooks, or the pile strips here; you do not use the other half (save that for the other side of the harness). Use these "dummy" strips near the knee area of the harness zipper, and as far down the harness as you may wish.

This "dummy" strip reduces the holding power of the harness Velcro. You can cut the "dummy" strips (either the hooks or pile) into narrower strips, to give you as much or as little holding power there as you may want. By trial and error, while hanging in the garage, you can adjust this holding power of the harness zipper to your needs. You should have enough holding power there to zip up and hold your legs comfortably, yet have a weak enough bond to let you push one knee out, then the other knee, peeling the Velcro apart, in case the zipper ever gets stuck. The zipper can still be stuck (closed), but then you can still get your legs out, and land normally.

You can easily reverse any adjustments that you make, later. Just add or subtract some of the "dummy" strips, to get exactly what you want there, for the Velcro holding power.

Lubricate a zipper with two swipes of hard clear wax (not soft, oily candle wax). Some pilots want to use a spray lube, but on any zipper, spray the lube on a cloth or paper towel first, and use the towel to wipe the lube only exactly where you want it.

Hope that helps.
:mrgreen:
CAL wrote:
blindrodie wrote:Cool...
So did you ever zip up?
No, i was up for an hour i should have , i was to busy working thermals , i was working with vg a lot. ok no more excuses . i well tell the truth it freaks me out zipping up my landing gear for fear of getting the zipper stuck when it is time to land . when i first took up the sport in 76-81 i flew with Knee hangers and my landing gear was always free . now that i am back it feels so weard to have them all zipped up .
thanks to you i am now motivated to zip up . i know it well be more comfortable and get better performance , Thanks Blindrodie :thumbsup:
User avatar
By CAL
#141471
thanks Red and everyone I am just going to quit being a wimp and Zip :lol:
User avatar
By AeroTow
#141541
I got so tired of not being able to bust out of the velcro when my zipper was jammed, busting out of the velcro when the zipper wasn't jammed, and having the velcro tear apart at the stitching that I finally said screw it and stitched the zipper directly to the pod.

If I get trapped, BFD. I make a mental note to deal with the zipper higher next time, roll in, and take care of the grass stains when I get home.

We've had people get REALLY mangled, maybe one or two killed, 'cause they've been so indoctrinated with the concept that they absolutely MUST land on their feet - regardless of the cost - that they wallow all over the sky desperately trying to free their legs all the way to impact or make some stupid attempt at a no stepper that ends up with a head being slammed into the ground.

Wallow all over the sky all you want down to about 200 feet but then start taking care of things that actually matter. Even if you don't have wheels, skidding in on your basetube beats cartwheeling in on your starboard wingtip or powerwhacking with your feet bound every time.
_
Tad Eareckson
User avatar
By selbaer
#141542
AeroTow wrote:I got so tired of not being able to bust out of the velcro when my zipper was jammed, busting out of the velcro when the zipper wasn't jammed, and having the velcro tear apart at the stitching that I finally said screw it and stitched the zipper directly to the pod.

If I get trapped, BFD. I make a mental note to deal with the zipper higher next time, roll in, and take care of the grass stains when I get home.

We've had people get REALLY mangled, maybe one or two killed, 'cause they've been so indoctrinated with the concept that they absolutely MUST land on their feet - regardless of the cost - that they wallow all over the sky desperately trying to free their legs all the way to impact or make some stupid attempt at a no stepper that ends up with a head being slammed into the ground.

Wallow all over the sky all you want down to about 200 feet but then start taking care of things that actually matter. Even if you don't have wheels, skidding in on your basetube beats cartwheeling in on your starboard wingtip or powerwhacking with your feet bound every time.
_
Tad Eareckson
who is we? and we had the thread about not being able to roll in because of condition
User avatar
By CHassan
#141543
AeroTow wrote:I got so tired of not being able to bust out of the velcro when my zipper was jammed, busting out of the velcro when the zipper wasn't jammed, and having the velcro tear apart at the stitching that I finally said screw it and stitched the zipper directly to the pod.

If I get trapped, BFD. I make a mental note to deal with the zipper higher next time, roll in, and take care of the grass stains when I get home.

We've had people get REALLY mangled, maybe one or two killed, 'cause they've been so indoctrinated with the concept that they absolutely MUST land on their feet - regardless of the cost - that they wallow all over the sky desperately trying to free their legs all the way to impact or make some stupid attempt at a no stepper that ends up with a head being slammed into the ground.

Wallow all over the sky all you want down to about 200 feet but then start taking care of things that actually matter. Even if you don't have wheels, skidding in on your basetube beats cartwheeling in on your starboard wingtip or powerwhacking with your feet bound every time.
_
Tad Eareckson
Oh well now we understand. Lets not worry about landing safely, since were all to stupid to launch anyway!
By blindrodie
#141557
Hmmm, a constantly jammed zipper. One of the most fundamental parts of the POD harness, used thousands of times around the world without much of a hitch, and SOP's to deal with any problems should they occur. That along with a faulty release system with the same background makes this sport a pretty unsafe lifestyle.

I sure hope this guy gets OUT of the sport of HGing before he gets hurt! 8)
User avatar
By remmoore
#141565
Wow, you guys seem a little harsh toward Tad's reply. I didn't read anything into it that you did. He was simply (and fairly briefly) saying that pilots can get hurt if they struggle with a stick zipper all the way to the ground. It wasn't about elaborate methods of avoiding it - more of a common-sense review of what to do if it happened.

As a pilot with a sewn-in zipper, I take good care of it. If it ever lets me down, however, I'll be doing the same as Tad.

RM
By blindrodie
#141569
His postings are all along the same lines regardless of subject. He has a long history and I've been exposed to it for a while. I see his zipper comments as very contradictory that's all.

No harm done. He likes all the controversy RM. It's what Trolls do...
User avatar
By AeroTow
#141573
remmoore,

Thanks for your post. I need little reassurances that there's intelligent life out there somewhere every once in a while. I know it exists but it gets so overwhelmed by all the noise.

From Hang Gliding magazine...
---

1989/03

-

1988/04/10
Robert Porter
40
Intermediate
Lookout Mountain
Tennessee
AirWave Magic
Fatal. Head and neck

Forty-year-old Massachusetts Intermediate pilot on flying trip to Tennessee. Had a good launch and uneventful sled run to the landing area. Good set-up and approach; everything looked perfect. Opinions differ, but probably pilot was preoccupied with faulty harness zipper, was looking down at it, and flew into ground.

---

1990/01

-

Advanced
Extensive experience
High Performance
Concussion

Experienced pilot enjoying his flight, came in on final and attempted to unzip his harness. Found zipper stuck in the closed position. After a couple of futile attempts to unzip using the usual method, it was too late to kick open the velcro. Pilot flared hard hoping to land upright (still in pod) but fell forward hitting his head. Knocked unconscious for a couple of minutes.

-

Advanced
10 years
High Performance
Severe chest, vascular and abdominal injuries

Experienced pilot was observed from the landing area on final to be looking back at his harness boot and struggling with zipper cord. One wing suddenly went straight down and glider slid into the ground.

---

1995/05

-

Harness Problems

Four pilots had problems with harnesses, all of whom suffered moderate to serious injuries. One pilot was distracted while trying to open his harness late in his approach, and caught a wing tip on the ground in a high-speed run. He suffered a serious spinal injury.

Another pilot got his pant leg caught in the zipper, struggled with it until will into his final, and somehow stalled at 20 feet. Witnesses suspect that he either pushed out on the bar while tugging on the zipper or flew slowly through the wind gradient. He broke his wrist, dislocated another wrist bone, and suffered ligament damage.

Another had his harness open, but had trouble getting his feet out. He got distracted enough that he failed to maintain enough airspeed for the glider to respond to control input. Heading for a line of trees he managed to flare, but hit them anyway an dislocated one shoulder and broke the bone in his upper arm.

Another pilot on his first altitude flight waited until he was too close to the ground to try to exit his harness. He managed to avoid some trees as he frantically grasped for the release, failed to find it, and managed to kick the velcro out at the last minute. He was free and reaching for the uprights just as he impacted. He broke both arms and suffered serious facial injuries (no full-face helmet).

---

1995/09

-

1995/07/03
Robert Atwood
41
Advanced, 20 years in the sport
Large field near Springfield, Vermont
Fatal. Neck, other?

A very experienced pilot took off on a cross-country flight. He was found later by a passerby at the edge of a very large field.

The glider had come to rest about 12 feet from the line of trees around the field. The downtubes were badly bent, as were the steel plates at the nose. From the broken limbs on the ground and damage to the tops of the tree, obvious preliminary indications are that the pilot clipped the tops of the trees about 50 feet up, stalled and dove into the ground.

There is some speculation that the pilot might have been distracted by a stuck zipper on his new harness, based on an event from the previous day in which he had to kick out the velcro to free his feet.

---
Yep, get those feet down no matter what. You certainly wouldn't want to end up like either of these guys:
---

1998/11

-

Bill Bryden

A pilot experienced a failure of his harness zipper and was unable to deploy his landing gear. It is not known why he did not rip out the zipper Velcro. He rolled to an uneventful belly landing.

---

2001/11

-

ZIPPERS AND WHEELS

My heart now beating rapidly, I gave up on the zipper, resigned myself to a wheel landing and focused on my approach. The west LZ behind the school at our site is not particularly large, and with my Super Sport and almost zero wind I knew there wouldn't be very much room for error. Luckily, I brought it in smoothly and safely, and with a lot of speed, which made for a long rollout, finally coming to a stop at the far end of the field with only inches to spare before the brush. Later, while breaking down my glider, I kissed my six-inch, snap-on wheels for saving me from certain injury had I not been using them.

Steven Boost
Club Les Corsaires
Mt. Yamaska, Quebec

---
Oh, the HUMILIATION!
_
Tad Eareckson
Last edited by AeroTow on Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Holger
#141576
AeroTow wrote:I need little reassurances that there's intelligent life out there somewhere every once in a while. I know it exists but it gets so overwhelmed by all the noise.
Which means most of us are haven't got any intelligence. Should be a clear violation the usage rules of this board. I'll send SG a PM. Would be so nice to get this troll off of here.
User avatar
By CAL
#141578
AeroTow wrote:remmoore,

Thanks for your post. I need little reassurances that there's intelligent life out there somewhere every once in a while. I know it exists but it gets so overwhelmed by all the noise.

From Hang Gliding magazine...
---

1989/03

-

1988/04/10
Robert Porter
40
Intermediate
Lookout Mountain
Tennessee
AirWave Magic
Fatal. Head and neck

Forty-year-old Massachusetts Intermediate pilot on flying trip to Tennessee. Had a good launch and uneventful sled run to the landing area. Good set-up and approach; everything looked perfect. Opinions differ, but probably pilot was preoccupied with faulty harness zipper, was looking down at it, and flew into ground.

---

1990/01

-

Advanced
Extensive experience
High Performance
Concussion

Experienced pilot enjoying his flight, came in on final and attempted to unzip his harness. Found zipper stuck in the closed position. After a couple of futile attempts to unzip using the usual method, it was too late to kick open the velcro. Pilot flared hard hoping to land upright (still in pod) but fell forward hitting his head. Knocked unconscious for a couple of minutes.

-

Advanced
10 years
High Performance
Severe chest, vascular and abdominal injuries

Experienced pilot was observed from the landing area on final to be looking back at his harness boot and struggling with zipper cord. One wing suddenly went straight down and glider slid into the ground.

---

1995/05

-

Harness Problems

Four pilots had problems with harnesses, all of whom suffered moderate to serious injuries. On pilot was distracted while trying to open his harness late in his approach, and caught a wing tip on the ground in a high-speed run. He suffered a serious spinal injury.

Another pilot got his pant leg caught in the zipper, struggled with it until will into his final, and somehow stalled at 20 feet. Witnesses suspect that he either pushed out on the bar while tugging on the zipper or flew slowly through the wind gradient. He broke his wrist, dislocated another wrist bone, and suffered ligament damage.

Another had his harness open, but had trouble getting his feet out. He got distracted enough that he failed to maintain enough airspeed for the glider to respond to control input. Heading for a line of trees he managed to flare, but hit them anyway an dislocated one shoulder and broke the bone in his upper arm.

Another pilot on his first altitude flight waited until he was too close to the ground to try to exit his harness. He managed to avoid some trees as he frantically grasped for the release, failed to find it, and managed to kick the velcro out at the last minute. He was free and reaching for the uprights just as he impacted. He broke both arms and suffered serious facial injuries (no full-face helmet).

---

1995/09

-

1995/07/03
Robert Atwood
41
Advanced, 20 years in the sport
Large field near Springfield, Vermont
Fatal. Neck, other?

A very experienced pilot took off on a cross-country flight. He was found later by a passerby at the edge of a very large field.

The glider had come to rest about 12 feet from the line of trees around the field. The downtubes were badly bent, as were the steel plates at the nose. From the broken limbs on the ground and damage to the tops of the tree, obvious preliminary indications are that the pilot clipped the tops of the trees about 50 feet up, stalled and dove into the ground.

There is some speculation that the pilot might have been distracted by a stuck zipper on his new harness, based on an event from the previous day in which he had to kick out the velcro to free his feet.

---
Yep, get those feet down no matter what. You certainly wouldn't want to end up like either of these guys:
---

1998/11

-

Bill Bryden

A pilot experienced a failure of his harness zipper and was unable to deploy his landing gear. It is not known why he did not rip out the zipper Velcro. He rolled to an uneventful belly landing.

---

2001/11

-

ZIPPERS AND WHEELS

My heart now beating rapidly, I gave up on the zipper, resigned myself to a wheel landing and focused on my approach. The west LZ behind the school at our site is not particularly large, and with my Super Sport and almost zero wind I knew there wouldn't be very much room for error. Luckily, I brought it in smoothly and safely, and with a lot of speed, which made for a long rollout, finally coming to a stop at the far end of the field with only inches to spare before the brush. Later, while breaking down my glider, I kissed my six-inch, snap-on wheels for saving me from certain injury had I not been using them.

Steven Boost
Club Les Corsaires
Mt. Yamaska, Quebec

---
Oh, the HUMILIATION!
_
Tad Eareckson

Hi Aero Tow , i see what you are saying about the zipper and fiddling with it to the point of distraction . that is why this thread got started is my fear to zip , if i felt comfortable landing as you said with my wheels , my fear of zipping would be over , but it terifies me to even think of being close to the ground even though i have wheels . it took me a while to get to where i could sleep in a mummy bag all zipped up , i got over that fear because it was either get cold or loose the fear . i chose to loose the fear .

are you angry with me and maybe others because of our fear ?
User avatar
By woodysr2
#141581
I understand the reasoning Tad but If you honestly think that the base tube of your glider will skid along a grass field with six inches of grass or a ploughed field or infact almost any other surface you are sadly mistaken.
Almost all will cause an imeadiate stop and resultant swing through etc.
You are as I previously said correct in reminding everyone they are responsible for flying the glider all the way to the ground a perfect reason for always flying with wheels
Last edited by woodysr2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By blindrodie
#141582
OMG Cal you are baiting him now! STOP!!!!!!!!!!!! 8)
User avatar
By Holger
#141583
woodysr2 wrote:I understand the reasoning Tad but If you honestly think that the base tube of your glider will skid along a grass field with six inches of grass or a ploughed field or infact almost any other surface you are sadly mistaken.
Depends on the rake angle of the control frame and the shape of the base bar. Lots of rake on my ATOS, and together with the wide carbon fiber base bar the rig skids very nicely on grass and even soft desert ground. Tried it out too many times. :x :lol:
User avatar
By CAL
#141585
blindrodie wrote:OMG Cal you are baiting him now! STOP!!!!!!!!!!!! 8)
Hi Blindrodie , i am trying to let him know that i can't help the fear part and let him know that i am listening to all that is being discussed to work out the fear including his statements . i am hoping he will not be angry if he understands that i can't help the fear . but with practice and utilizing what has been said here on this thread including his statements that i will succede in getting over my fear :thumbsup:
User avatar
By sg
#141586
AeroTow wrote:I need little reassurances that there's intelligent life out there somewhere every once in a while. I know it exists but it gets so overwhelmed by all the noise.
Check out the ignore report
http://www.hanggliding.org/ignorereport.php

You are the MOST ignored person on this site because you always make an effort to offend everyone with statements like this.

Warning #1. Keep up the name calling and implied attacks and you will end up banned.
User avatar
By jjcote
#141587
AeroTow wrote:Wallow all over the sky all you want down to about 200 feet but then start taking care of things that actually matter.
200 feet? Yikes. I reach for the unzip cord at between 500-700 feet AGL. If I were to get down to 200 feet without being able to get my legs out, I would have already given up on it and would be well into deciding on the safest method of landing based on the ground conditions. (The exception to this is at the beach, where I might never get above 200 feet AGL, but I'm not going to keep my knees locked for an hour or more. I have skidded in uneventfully on the sand once.)
User avatar
By remmoore
#141595
"I reach for the unzip cord at between 500-700 feet AGL."

Yep, me too. I always figure I can rezip if I get back up. By 200' I'm typically completely committed to landing in my selected location. I'm focused on any changes to wind direction, visualizing DBF, etc. Since most places I land (and especially during XC) don't have wind streamers, I spend alot of time making sure I'm gonna have a safe landing.

RM
goes 16 imagery

http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/data/geo/#/animation?sate[…]

A scary Launch

Thanks for your post. We all should seek out criti[…]

Hey kukailimoku2, I'm curious, what's the deal wit[…]

Add support for TLS

That would be nice indeed. Biggest problem is that[…]