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All techie stuff here
User avatar
By RobertKesselring
#377597
There are a couple broad categories of injury you'd have to protect against.

Injury due to high g impact would be nearly impossible to protect against. You would have to significantly increase the stopping distance for the wearer. Given that the maximum feasible thickness of padding you could use would be an inch or 2, I cant imagine it being any more then marginally helpful.

Injury due to concentrated high force, like hitting a small branch while crashing into a tree, could conceivably be mitigated by a hard shelled harness. You'd have to be careful when designing such a harness that the inevitable added weight and restriction of movement would not make the harness cumbersome and therefore cause accidents, and therefore cause more injuries then it prevented.

I'm always looking for ways to fly safer. If you can overcome the above challenges and design a safer harness then what I have now, and sell it at a reasonable price, then I'm interested. :popcorn:
By JackieB
#377599
Robert summed it up nicely. It wouldn't really be possible to gain the kind of protection you're thinking about. I pondered the same thing when I used to race motocross and asked my doctor about it as well. He pointed out that armored suits in medieval times really weren't that effective against blunt force trauma.

There are a couple of areas that merit discussion, most notably our helmets. There are a lot of very wise pilots who feel that the EN 966 certification standard is too low and that at DOT motorcycle helmet is much better. I'm going to accept that advice myself.

If I was flying in an area with lots of uneven terrain, I'd wear my hiking boots (they fit in my harness OK). They provide support to help keep from getting an ankle injury.

In areas with lots of rocks, pilots often dress up like hockey players with shin guards, etc. I fly where there is lush grass and haven't had to do that yet.

If you are really concerned about this type of protection (it's a reasonable if you are, for sure), you would want to fly sailplanes. Most of the have excellent crash protection.
By rjakobsson
#377614
To really be able to think about this, some sort of statistics would be needed.
What is the most common injury, and what's the most common cause for death? What injuries causes people to die?
User avatar
By waveview
#377616
Years ago while hang glider I managed to get my thumb caught between the base tube and an asphalt surface when landing. To this day I still fly with gloves, even on the beach.
By rjakobsson
#377617
RobertKesselring wrote: Injury due to high g impact would be nearly impossible to protect against. You would have to significantly increase the stopping distance for the wearer. Given that the maximum feasible thickness of padding you could use would be an inch or 2, I cant imagine it being any more then marginally helpful.
I agree, that would be a hard problem.
RobertKesselring wrote: Injury due to concentrated high force, like hitting a small branch while crashing into a tree, could conceivably be mitigated by a hard shelled harness. You'd have to be careful when designing such a harness that the inevitable added weight and restriction of movement would not make the harness cumbersome and therefore cause accidents, and therefore cause more injuries then it prevented.
What about mobile body protection, instead of a hard harness? Somethink like a motorcycle upper body protection?
By rjakobsson
#377618
waveview wrote:Years ago while hang glider I managed to get my thumb caught between the base tube and an asphalt surface when landing. To this day I still fly with gloves, even on the beach.
Ouch! What kind of gloves do you use?
By rjakobsson
#377619
JackieB wrote:Robert summed it up nicely. It wouldn't really be possible to gain the kind of protection you're thinking about. I pondered the same thing when I used to race motocross and asked my doctor about it as well. He pointed out that armored suits in medieval times really weren't that effective against blunt force trauma.
Interesting! Motocross racers use more protection than hang glider pilots, right? Is that mainly to protect against sharp impacts from the bikes themselves? Or the environment?
JackieB wrote: There are a couple of areas that merit discussion, most notably our helmets. There are a lot of very wise pilots who feel that the EN 966 certification standard is too low and that at DOT motorcycle helmet is much better. I'm going to accept that advice myself.
Great advice, thanks. Any specific models that would be suitable for hang gliding pilots? What is the EN 966 standard supposed to protect against? Hitting the head against metal parts of the hang glider (not being ironic)?
User avatar
By RobertKesselring
#377620
rjakobsson wrote: Interesting! Motocross racers use more protection than hang glider pilots, right? Is that mainly to protect against sharp impacts from the bikes themselves? Or the environment?
You bring up an excellent point! I hadn't thought about motocross gear, but they would face many of the same potential injuries in a crash as we would. I'll have to stop at a motorcycle shop next time I get the chance and try on some of the gear to see if it would be suitable for flying in. :thumbsup:
rjakobsson wrote:What is the EN 966 standard supposed to protect against? Hitting the head against metal parts of the hang glider (not being ironic)?
That is actually the most common head impact I've heard of. I don't have any research to back it up, just what I read about most often.

If you screw up a landing and your base tube gets caught on the ground or in the foliage it will stop abruptly. The glider will nose over hard into the ground and the you will swing through the control frame and hit your head on the keel. Like this...

[youtube]
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Last edited by RobertKesselring on Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By waveview
#377621
rjakobsson wrote:
waveview wrote:Years ago while hang glider I managed to get my thumb caught between the base tube and an asphalt surface when landing. To this day I still fly with gloves, even on the beach.
Ouch! What kind of gloves do you use?
Motorcycle gloves.
User avatar
By DAVE858
#377622
RobertKesselring wrote:
rjakobsson wrote: Interesting! Motocross racers use more protection than hang glider pilots, right? Is that mainly to protect against sharp impacts from the bikes themselves? Or the environment?
You bring up an excellent point! I hadn't thought about motocross gear, but they would face many of the same potential injuries in a crash as we would. I'll have to stop at a motorcycle shop next time I get the chance and try on some of the gear to see if it would be suitable for flying in. :thumbsup:
rjakobsson wrote:What is the EN 966 standard supposed to protect against? Hitting the head against metal parts of the hang glider (not being ironic)?
That is actually the most common head impact I've heard of. I don't have any research to back it up, just what I read about most often.

If you screw up a landing and your base tube gets caught on the ground or in the foliage it will stop abruptly. The glider will nose over hard into the ground and the you will swing through the control frame and hit your head on the keel. Like this...

[youtube]
[/youtube]
The reason that happened was because he was too slow & stalled. Airspeed is your friend. Use it right to the very end. Topless wings are not designed to be flown slow & mushy. A fast approach is a safe approach.
User avatar
By remmoore
#377634
rjakobsson wrote:What is the EN 966 standard supposed to protect against?
Given that it seemed to come about coinciding with the rise of paragliding, I would guess it's designed to protect your head as you hit the ground with your @ss. For HG, it will protect from the typical whoopsy-doodle or boo-boo, but I wouldn't count on it for anything major.

RM
User avatar
By dave hopkins
#377640
The main protection besides a helmet would be Knee and shin guards plus gloves are a must. In any kind of incident we need to use our hands to protect us. Thin leather gloves are good. Deer skin gives the best feel, but any tough material works. I think it is foolish to fly without gloves.
If you are often hitting objects that may require a Kevlar suit maybe you need to choose different flying sites.
User avatar
By Eteamjack
#377645
I wear my cup religiously
#377647
rjakobsson wrote:I'm new to the sport.
One thing that I've been struggling to wrap my head around is why pilots don't use more efficient body protection, designed for high impact?
They dont need it. If you need more protection, bowling or golf can be a lot of fun instead.

Flying isn't for everyone....
By once&future
#377649
This was one reason why I liked having a chest mounted chute back when I was flying. Probably saved me from a broken rib on a couple of hard impacts over the years.
By Roadrunner
#377650
Well I have attempted to achieve contact with a Helmet
Manufacturer
"BELL HELMETS" to find out if they indeed do test their
Helmets, as far as "SAID-HELMET" would reduce the
amount of G's said Pilot's skull would be exposed to
say an impact resulting in said Pilots skull being
exposed to say a X amount of G's from an impact that
resulted in a say a 100 G load being delivered upon
Said Pilots Skull.

I told Pilot-X of my question for the manufacturer.
My question being did they do testing so they could
come up with I will call it a "G-REDUCTION-RATE"
Pilot-X said "I DOUBT IT" What do you guys think?
I mean all that I asked was for

the M-F-G to give me information as to how well their
"BEST-HELMET" does it's job of reducing the heads
exposure
to a High-G Load.
Last edited by Roadrunner on Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By dave hopkins
#377658
Eteamjack wrote:I wear my cup religiously
How would you take a pee with a cup? You must be a young guy. The worst ball buster I experienced > I had to go real bad. I was on my downwind after failing to make a low save. So I wipped it out, got the job done but fail to secure my tool back in my pants. Knowing I was flailing in the wind distracted me in the flare window and I flopped on to my belly. It wasn't good! It took stretching and a pounding. At least it was green grass. I hate to think if it had been sage or cactus. I don't recommend it. :ahh:
User avatar
By Jason
#377672
if you want body protection- chest mounted chute.......
jeans/boots/longsleeve and gloves


personally i think an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.......

practice safe takeoffs/landings with good speed and control......your body and equipment will thank you

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