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All FLPHG stuff goes here
#400181
Hi everyone.

I'm thinking for a while about buying a (second hand) mosquito or some sort and trying to figure out what other people think. I searched quite a lot, but still not sure yet about some things so hopefully you guys can provide me some info. I have about 25hrs flying experience on a Icaro relax and can thermal/launch/land pretty well and feel confident about it.

Since I live in the Netherlands where there are no mountains and not many opportunities to do winching/towing on days it looks good the FLPHG harness may be good to give a lot more flying time.

- I read people do not launch when it's thermal weather since they have hard time getting airborne. The reason I would buy it is just to launch, use thermals when available and fire it back up when I loose the thermals? This way I can get a lot better at working on thermals and going XC when not using the FLPHG.
- How much extra time does it require to get setup?
- How much maintainance does it require?
- I have a VW golf sized car, so it should fit in there. Would a water proof bag prevent exhaust smell to enter my car? Otherwise I would have to buy trailer too, which make storage more difficult too.

Hope you guys can answer some of my questions. :popcorn:
#400182
I'm fairly new to FLPHG, but my Quito is probably 2.5 meters long in the bag. I'm not that familiar with the Gulf, but isn't it a kind of compact car? That could be an issue unless you plan on carrying it on a roof rack. I assume you have some kind of rack set up to carry your glider, if you have it well protected, well supported, and well padded I suppose that could work.

Set-up time for the Quito is not bad. Install the fual tank and prop and you're good to go. I'd say it adds maybe 10 minutes to your normal set-up time, mostly because it's heavy and cumbersome to unload and move around.

I can't say much about maintenance because I have not owned mine long enough for that to be an issue. It's not an airplane, it's a powered glider. The difference being you don't fly it where you are out of safe gliding distance to an LZ. The engine was built to be light and powerful. Reliability was a secondary design consideration.

Flying it is somewhat different due to the added weight behind your feet. I am also hoping to use it to hone my unpowered flying skills, but I'm not sure if that hope is going to turn into reality. I can tell I'm going to develop a lot of different muscle-memory habbits with the Quito then I have from free flying.

My instructor has told me to get a good 20 or 30 hours in the Quito in calm air before I even think about starting to ease into more active air. I know people do fly them in thermic conditions, but you'll need to ease into that very gradually. Really though, the reason for flying in terbulant conditions is to use the lift for longer flights. With the Quito, you have a motor, so really, what's the reason for flying themic air? Just go fly and enjoy the nice calm relaxing sight-seeing.
#400199
HG for flying; FLPHG for exploring and sightseeing. The two really compliment each other, especially when you can use the same wing for both (just swap harnesses).

Thermals are how you get your height. The downside is that sinky air on a thermic day can make it a little hard to get up to 1,000 feet if the sink is over the place where you have taken off from. The good news is that you are bound to find a thermal in among all that sink, then away you go!

Although full power for the first couple of minutes is a little noisy, once you throttle back to minimize your rate of climb, you will find the wind noise to be louder than the exhaust. I minimize my rate of climb (using the motor) because I rely on thermals for those big gains. I can't use earplugs as I need to be able to listen in on my airband radio for other air traffic.

I transport my motor harness on top of my roof rack next to my glider (saves me having to jam it into my Forester). Leaves more room in the car for camping gear.

I keep a log book of my engine hours and all the maintenance that I do. Vibration-induced metal fatigue and lose bolts are your big enemies. Be sure to lock-wire your exhaust manifold bolts. Clean your fuel line filter and overhaul your carburetor periodically. Keep a plastic bag over your mouth throttle to keep sand out of it when it is stored. The same with the fuel line connectors. (I fly on the West Coast in New Zealand, where salt and black iron-sand can be a problem if not managed. I don't think that you have iron-sand in Holland.)

This is what I mean by a black sand beach.
#400229
Thanks for your replies! Really helps.

@RobertKesselring: Its indeed a compact car. But what you say is a better option, carry it on the roof rack next to my glider. That should work and leaves room and the smell outside the car.

Althought sightseeing is a really welcome addition in these circumstances where you normally would not be able to fly at all, but still I want to improve my thermalling skills. Also the fact why I love hanggliding is that you actually need to do something to stay up, think about next places to go, read the landscape/clouds/wind. Just cruising around eliminates/reduces the 'game element' of hanggliding for me, but that doesn't particularly mean it's no fun.

So althought I would certainly try it in calm conditions at first, thermic air is the goal!

@Odakyu-sen: Thanks for the video, looks cool 8) .

Yes in sinking air I can imagine it will be hard to climb if normal climb rate is 1.5 m/s or 300ft/min. But in non-thermic conditions the climb rate doesn't sound too bad. So it takes about 5 minutes to go to a height I would normally be released during tow.

How do you think about the climb rate once the motor is shut down? Also, is it hard to turn while being under power?

Btw: Jealous on you flying location, been in NZ previous year for 2 months and it has been the most beautiful country ever been to :thumbsup:
#400233
If you carry your Mosquito NRG power harness on your roof rack, be sure to carry the harness "on its back" with the engine and exhaust (the delicate parts) to the top side. When you put on the tie-down straps, be careful that they don't bear down on any fragile parts (like the exhaust).

My Mosquito thermals just fine. It will thermal at either half throttle or idling. Last year I flew with some topless pilots. All three of us got into a 1,000 fpm thermal for over a minute. I climbed just as fast as they did. I am looking forward to more thermalling this season. You need an upper airspace limit of at least 4,500 feet to make it worth thermalling. (It's harder when the supper limit is 2,500 ft.) Convergence cloud is also wonderful for thermal flying. (Here's a video of my flying in convergence.)

It is true that with FLPHG you lose that "gamer" or "patience while fishing" tension factor. That is while I still enjoy free flying. However, FLPHG lets you "survey" the area around your favorite HG flying spot, to verify potential thermal triggers under various weather conditions. This knowledge can give you an edge when you free fly. (I know a trigger over there that no one else knows about...)

I suspect that the additional 12 kg of weight might increase my sink rate a little bit. Or maybe it increases my angle of attack (which is why I moved my hang position on the keel as far forward as I could, to compensate).

It is not hard to turn while the engine is at cruising speed. I only use "full power" for taking off and getting up to the first 1,000 ft. After that I throttle back to 6,500 rpm and let the cylinder head cool down to 150-160 degrees C. I rely on thermals for my height gains. Even when cruising, it is easy to turn. Just be careful to keep your harness more or less in line with the keel. Don't allow yourself to get too far out of line. It's not hard. The motor's thrust is not that powerful. If you strike very rough air, I suggest you throttle back. You don't want to be thrown around in the A-frame with a propeller flailing around behind you. (Don't worry, such cases are very rare.)

The bottom line: an FLPHG will climb just as well in a thermal as a "normal" hang glider.
#400246
Taking off in thermal conditions (active air) is a bit risky. Normally you can expect to hit sink at some point and fly parallel to the ground or even sink towards terra firma during the take-off. Thermals lifting off the ground might change the wind direction during your take-off run. If you are launching in active air then you are accepting a little risk.
Otherwise you can fly in calm conditions and enjoy safe flying (but no thermals). I only fly in calm conditions with the engine on at all times. Even that kind of thermal-free flying has made me a better free flyer.
As already written here by another user, the motor flying and free flying complement each other. I am a certified FLPHG instructor in Sweden and I only recommend flying in calm conditions to my students and/or people asking me about mosquito possibilities. I also recommend a fixed prop as the Swedish Aerosport foldning prop has proven to be crap in every aspect. Especially take-off performance.

Setting up is quick, especially if you have an internal petrol tank. Maybe 10 mins if you are taking it easy.

I have a little Toyota and place the mosquito on the roof. I used to put it on the roof rack (upside down) but last year I built a double glider rack with extra planks for the mosquito. So I can carry either 2 wings or 1 wing and the mozzie. I built it with two leading edges from a retired wing, screws and some planks I found in a container.

Make sure you buy a harness that fits you. Buying a larger harness just because it may be cheaper than another one that is your size is a BAD way to save money. As for maintenance it seems to be very different from one harness to the next. I have seen mozzies getting all sorts of problems and others (like mine) requiring less than 1 hour of maintenace per year. Using a fixed prop that doesn't vibrate is a good precaution. Using a folding prop that will normally vibrate quite a bit guarantees problems.
#400281
Really good to hear they thermal just as well when not using a flpgh Odakyu-sen! How do you think about launching into active air? It seems that some people do and some don't like it. Great video btw! :drool:

@Combat: Yes in active air you'll always have more risk launching which is also the case when I do winchin/towing. The difference is that both of these launching methods will get you in the air quicker and thus not having much problems with sinking air. So especially in the beginning I'll only fly calm conditions, but still hope that I can fly more active air and use thermals.
#400285
Launching into active air carries risk (and rewards). As you know, a thermal is a rising column of air that draws air from all directions towards its base, while being surrounded by an outer zone of sinking air.
What does this mean for a FLPHG ready to take off? It means that the headwind could switch on you, to become a tail wind. To mitigate this risk, use wind streamers and windsocks. Spend some time beforehand to observe the local thermal cycles, then time your takeoff so that it occurs while you have a headwind.

When getting ready to land, watch your windsock. If it goes limp, something is about to happen, so watch out. Now would not be the best time to land.

Taking off in sink is no fun. I suggest a large airfield or paddock where you can do safe circuits while you attempt to climb out. Small takeoff paddocks with surrounding hazards (water, buildings, trees, etc.) are not recommended on active days. The good news is that once you get up to 500+ ft AGL, you have some latitude to cruise around in search of lift. Where there is sink, lift will not be far away.

Combat is right in that when you start out in FLPHG, limit yourself to light-wind, inactive days until your confidence and skills increase. I hold an instructor's rating for hang gliding, but I certainly didn't jump straight into inland powered flying on active thermic days. I spent my first FLPHG season at the coast, where there is laminar, constant airflow. In time, I began to chase the coastal thermals inland to get a feel for them. It was a gradual process.
#400290
Exactly! Great tips there, definately should plan on see what the thermal activity in combination with the wind direction is doing over time.

There are quite a few fields with a runway up to 500 meter and ended by a line of trees. So I guess even in active air this should give enough room to take off or abort the take off in case things went wrong.
#400293
A field with 500 m of clearance is pretty much the minimum you need on an active day. It is however more than enough on a calm day. What kind of wing are you thinking of using?
#400297
combat.is.hell wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:27 pm
A field with 500 m of clearance is pretty much the minimum you need on an active day. It is however more than enough on a calm day. What kind of wing are you thinking of using?
It's important to recognize when conditions are not safe for flying.
In this video, some local PPG pilots invited me to come flying with them. I set up at the first field (which was a lot smaller than it looks in the video), but I didn't think that the takeoff conditions were safe for me (light wind, short field, row of trees and the end, orchards behind the trees, etc.) so I didn't fly. Later we traveled to the coast to meet them, but again, the conditions were unsuitable for me, so I didn't set up.
#400304
Just too noisy and unprotected blenderizing for me to own one but it looks fun! Still, would do a microlite :shock: :twisted:

8)
#400307
...but microlight seems boring
So true my friend BUT it's better then no flying at all and I want to just stay local and work thermals witha little backup, :wink:

8)
#400313
What I have found with FLPHG:
  • When cruising, the wind noise significantly masks the engine noise
    Can use thermals just as easily as a free-flying HG
    Easier to land than with a regular harness (the skids take some of the weight and extend the flare window)
    No need for a hanger
    Easily transportable and storable
    Can thermal XC and then return to point of origin
    No need for ground crew (to pick you up)
    Can sight-see and explore areas of geographical interest
    Can "survey" valleys for thermal trigger sources (useful information for free flying)
    More opportunities to fly year-round and on light days when the wind is coming from the "wrong" direction
#400317
I only see plusses 8) , thats good!

Think I'll wait and see during the winter time if there is any good second hand harness my size coming on sale (for a good price) Otherwise I'm going for a new FIllo harness. The second hand Mosquito's I'm currently seeing online right now are only about 700-800 EUR less then a new Fillo. That difference is not big enough to go second hand, but since the flying season is (almost) over I'll wait and see if there will popup any second hand harness somewhere in the coming months.

Thanks for your contribution :thumbsup:
#400319
When I ordered my Quito, it took 4 months to get it. IDK if Filo's production schedule is similar or not. Add to that the time that it's going to take you to get the necessary training to enjoy it. That's going to depend heavily on your current skill and how much free time you have. If your flying season gets going in March or April, you may want to order around November.

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