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By alain
#393880
Hi everyone,

I have decided to get back to flphg after a 15 year interruption. I would like to do so with a rigid wing.

Which one would you recommend? Any experience?

So far, my thoughts are:

- there are some fairly cheap Atos C or V on the second hand market (Europe). It seems a good compromise and it might not require a stab.
- I have read a post that rates the Ghostbuster as the absolute best wing with a Mosquito. But that is just one and fairly old post, I would like to hear more. Not to mention the fact that the safety record of the GB is not the best.
- The Exxtacy seems to be a very reliable option and can happily be flown without a stab, but it is heavier than the Atos I think.

Finally, apologies if you have read this question elsewhere (Facebook, Yahoo etc...). I have fished for answers before, but beside the fact that a rigid wing seems a no brainer choice, I still don't know which one to go for.

Thank you for your feedback, happy flying.

Alain
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By miraclepieco
#393923
Atos is the standard. They are the most common rigid, still in production with continuing factory support and good resale value. You just can't go wrong with an Atos of any vintage.
They work great with a Mosquito (I have experience flying the combination together). If you search YouTube you will find innumerable videos of Atos/Mossie combos.

If budget is a priority, the Exxtacy has a good reputation (I've never flown one) and Ghostbusters are dirt cheap, mainly because they are discontinued and parts availability could be an issue.

Did you mean 15 years hiatus from FLPHG, or 15 years absence from hang gliding itself? If you haven't flown at all for 15 years I wouldn't recommend an Atos as a first glider after a long layoff - get your air legs back on something more docile. The transition from flexie to rigid is a non-event.

One thing for sure: looking out on that big 42-foot span with the words "A-I-R ATOS" on the undersurface, rumbling through turbulence like the Death Star through the galaxy, is a majestic experience.
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By magicpotato
#393925
I've heard amazing things about the Aeros Phantom. It's the only rigid that has full aelierons instead of just top surface spoilers. I've heard of flights across the grand canyon in that wing. They don't make them anymore... But a little bird told me they may restart production... :wink:
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By alain
#393926
miraclepieco wrote:You just can't go wrong with an Atos of any vintage. .
That is what I am thinking too.
Reading the Rigid Wing forum, it looks like the first generations are easier to land, no? They also seem to be more flyable without a stab in standard conditions. Right now, I am leaning towards a couple of Atos V which are available nearby and very affordable.
miraclepieco wrote: If you search YouTube you will find innumerable videos of Atos/Mossie combos. .
And when it says '2000 views', 1900 are usually from me...
miraclepieco wrote:Did you mean 15 years hiatus from FLPHG, or 15 years absence from hang gliding itself?
15 years off FLPHG. I was living where mountains are abundant and FLPHG illegal. I am 'fairly' current with my normal flying. Not as much as I would like, but I manage to get up there several times a year. I fly a WW Sports 2
miraclepieco wrote:One thing for sure: looking out on that big 42-foot span with the words "A-I-R ATOS" on the undersurface, rumbling through turbulence like the Death Star through the galaxy, is a majestic experience.
I know... I have been creaming over it for years... I tried a first generation Atos in the late 90's and it was awesome. Just couldn't afford it at the time. Can't wait!

Thanks,

Alain
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By Nigel Hewitt
#393927
magicpotato wrote:I've heard amazing things about the Aeros Phantom. It's the only rigid that has full ailerons instead of just top surface spoilers. I've heard of flights across the grand canyon in that wing. They don't make them any more... But a little bird told me they may restart production... :wink:
I first saw one years ago and, after years in the real aero business, I fell instantly and madly in love.
So, when I discovered one for sale, I just bought it.
I'm not competent enough to fly it yet but I have laid it up like a fine wine.
If I keep learning and doing the hours then one day...
By circle with eagles
#393930
I have been flying an ATOS VR for 12 years. I originally bought the VR because a tail (vertical stabilizer) was standard equipment. I believe a tail reduces the chance of a tumble and if it does tumble there is a very good chance that the glider will recover to normal flight. The tail also gives a more solid feel to the pitch attitude especially in rough air. The VR tail and flaps are adjustable in flight to change trim speed and glide speed and angle. Some of the older Atos models do not have a tail but can have one installed. We had 2 different older model Atos gliders flown without a tail and then flown with a tail. Both pilots are much happier with the tail.

One of the benefits of the tail compared to the standard pitch control configurations of flex wings is the position of the tail can be farther aft than the wing tips and bridle lines which give it more leverage and make it more efficient. Yes, I am a fan of putting a tail on all advanced gliders.

Landing a rigid wing is different than landing a flex wing. Many pilots have a habit of flaring the flex wing on the final part of the landing process. This works well on single surface gliders but is less effective on gliders with higher glide ratios. If the Atos is aggressively flared the glider stalls and falls. There is no floating down like a Falcon. A good technique for landing is to ground skim at slow speed and then run with big strides. Then gently push out. This slows the wing more and brings the wing overhead which allows the pilot to slow down his run and stop without dropping the wing.
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By alain
#393933
circle with eagles wrote:Both pilots are much happier with the tail.
So, what is the best solution with a powered harness...?
  • No tail (Atos C)
    Retractable stab made by A-I-R, which extends and retracts accordingly. (that seems way too complicated to me and prone to expensive human error)
    Shorten stab (also made by A-I-R), which seems to defeat the advantages you are listing as it won't be behind the wing tips line.
Alain
By circle with eagles
#393939
I am not experienced in the motorized realm of hang gliding. I would not be the person to ask on this topic.
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By miraclepieco
#393950
alain wrote:
circle with eagles wrote:Both pilots are much happier with the tail.
So, what is the best solution with a powered harness...?
  • No tail (Atos C)
    Retractable stab made by A-I-R, which extends and retracts accordingly. (that seems way too complicated to me and prone to expensive human error)
    Shorten stab (also made by A-I-R), which seems to defeat the advantages you are listing as it won't be behind the wing tips line.
Alain
I assume the special A-I-R FLPHG tail stinger is engineered to compensate for its reduced leverage. After all, Felix is a certified aeronautical engineer.
However I always went with your option #1 (note my avatar).

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By garett21b
#395398
I would get Atos. Much simpler than Aeros.