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User avatar
By RobertKesselring
#390803
Anybody have any personal experience with these?

I know these are higher powered then the mosquito, would this be too much for a 5'10" 170 lb pilot?

What pros or cons about this kind of unit should I consider before buying it?
What would be good questions to ask the seller?
What would these units typically sell for used?
User avatar
By combat.is.hell
#390804
Your weight is not a problem for the Radne engine, you can take off easily with a mosquito if the conditions are right. And by saying right conditions I mean calm weather and take off from low to moderate altitude.

The Radne engine delivers 14 horses which are more than enough if you:

*you use the right propeller
*fly in calm conditions (no turbulence, definatelly no rising/sinking air during take-off, no switching of wind direction)
*fly a preferably modern wing with a good crisp sail that gives maximum lift for its size and speed range

Here is a video of one of my students taking off from a field with stubb. He hooks in at 275 lb (that is 125 kg) and accelerates without problem on ground that creates a lot of friction. As you can see the Radne with fixed propeller delivers enoug thust to push him to a good take off speed and provide a good climb.

User avatar
By DMarley
#392600
Love your vids on your vimeo account, j2sconstruction.
I don't think the radne would quite be enough for my 98kg mass (without harness) at my elevation of approximately 400 m ASL, in the summer, or even cooler seasons. Any suggestions? The wasp has the Vittorazi engine that is reported by wasp to be more powerful than the radne, even with less swept displacement. Can the radne or Vittorazi engines be 'suped-up' to provide better performance without causing reliability issues? Especially at higher density altitudes?
Thanks!
-Doug
User avatar
By combat.is.hell
#392612
At 98 kg you would be OK on warm days at this elevation but definatelly marginal. Any slight drop in thrust would have a big effect. A bit of a challenge for a routined flyer but not reccomended for somebody who is new to FLPHG.

The easier solution in your case would be to go down in weight (if your BMI allows that). You will feel better in general and you will save yourself the hassle of finding the right FLPHG unit. Just a lot of advantages really.

If not, then there is a conversion for the Mosquito NRG called red head, according to the manufacturer of the mozzie it is a conversion that sometimes works (you get more thrust) and sometimes not (the engine becomes a nightmare with unrelliable idling, difficult starts etc). So there is a risk.

I have no experience of harnesses that use other motors so I cannot help you further with that. We have however a group on Facebook called FLPHG and you can try asking the same question there. Some of the guys are very much into modifications and powerfull motors. Hope that helps and thank you for your kind comments, a new film is uploaded on my vimeo account today :)

User avatar
By DMarley
#392624
Lol!
Not that this really means anything, but the U.S. gov's BMI calculator indicates that I am nearly obese! And yet, my measured fat percentage by caliper test is less than 7 percent (which is way below normal for most people). I guess I should stop weight-training and mountain running to reduce my muscle mass if I want to get into a Mosquito. Darn. :)

Have you ever heard of using a scooter-tow to get initial altitude, then using the mosquito to boat around (much like power-assisted sailplanes that require an initial tow), or would this most likely have the same problems of too much weight to gain further altitude?
Thanks!
User avatar
By DMarley
#392630
"Fluffy white clouds over Arizona.....you might see clouds in the desert"
Cool.
User avatar
By combat.is.hell
#392634
DMarley wrote: Have you ever heard of using a scooter-tow to get initial altitude, then using the mosquito to boat around (much like power-assisted sailplanes that require an initial tow), or would this most likely have the same problems of too much weight to gain further altitude?
Thanks!

I have heard of a heavier guy that did scooter-tow to get some altitude, he also weighs 95 kg and thought that it would be a good idea to start off his FLPHG career like that.
He managed but it was messy: the mosquito's heavy back end was moving left and right making the tow an absolut nightmare. After a couple of tows he took off normally and had no big problems. His rate of climb was around 1 to 1,5m/sec with a Seedwings Funky 16.
User avatar
By AlaskanNewb
#392640
The vittorazi engine feels noticeably more powerful than the radne engine. It is a very big difference. Not really needed for most pilots though. An NRG or Wasp with a radne is pretty darn easy to fly.

I think it is 18HP and the Radne is closer to 12.

I have the wasp with radne and it does great for me. Here is a pic of it at 8000AGL after burning 0.65 gallons to reach that height. Glider is a WWF3 170.

The hidden mountain shares the vitorazzi engine so I am positive it makes more lift as I have flown that engine in wasp venom and in ppg. However, I think the choice should be based on availability of spare parts in your case. A radne is easily enough power for a pilot your size at your density altitudes. What if you wear out a prop shaft or a specialty part of the hidden mountain that is not part of the vitorazzi engine itself? Can you fabricate new parts yourself? If not I would suggest going with a wasp that has vitorazzi if you want the bigger power plant or simply getting a flphg with radne and abundant spare parts.

Try one out. Radne is plenty of power. I think radne version will be easier to thermal power off too..The wasp venom with vitorazzi felt heavier to me.
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User avatar
By DMarley
#392666
Thanks Alaska and sdfk for the info.
I could be wrong, but I believe the vittorazi has an oiled gear reduction rather than a belt reduction drive of the Radne. The gear reduction could be good and bad. Slightly more weight, but perhaps less maintenance. I really don't like the clunky appearance of the Wasp harness after looking at the sleeker looking Mossi. Nor does there appear to be any Wasp dealers anywhere in the USA.
User avatar
By combat.is.hell
#392681
At the end of the day it all depends on the instruction you get. If you are out with a certified FLPHG instructor then you will have no problems getting the hang of it. Even if you are marginal with weight and take-off performance on hot summer days, you can still manage a safe take-off (or a safe abort, totally possible and doable with FLPHG).

If however you are planning to learn FLPHG without instructor then you are facing a certain risk, not necessarily physical injuries but your wallet might take a pounding.
User avatar
By AlaskanNewb
#392692
The wasp is a little more clunky looking I suppose. I found it to be more comfortable and I liked the foot throttle and the way a kill switch is built into the mouth throttle. That said support for mozzie is better and it is more common, and it has internal fuel cell which is convenient.

I could have just added a foot throttle to the mossie and changed mouth throttle i guess.

Also the wasp has had many iterations leading to complications ordering parts. I ended up just converting my whole power train to the PPG reduction drive pully and belt set made by radne. Easier. But mine now turns opposite all the other FLPHG units so I have to order revers pitched props because i wanted the fan pointed forward in my engine install.

You are correct the vitorazzi has a gear box with gears in oil. For trikes I prefer a gear box like the rotax engines have but on a flphg unit it adds extra weight and I want to thermal so weight penalty isn't worth the easier maintenance. Plus I don't mind wrenching I can fix anything.

I don't think instruction is needed for FLPHG it is pretty easy. You cant really mess it up if you have at least solid H2 skills. But others disagree. I found the write up on wind drifter website to be sufficient training. If you are in US I think they do some training at blue sky if you think you need it. I have never been there, I may go and see if they can give me some pointers on improving my tow rig.

Only prop I have used with my radne powered wasp is the folding bolly that I bought when I first rebuilt my Wasp (I bought a fixer upper cheap) which gives plenty of thrust. The mossy I tried had a fix prop I think called a Helix, it felt the same as far as thrust goes I believe the wasp venom I borrowed in Florida used this same prop.
User avatar
By DMarley
#392812
Good info, Alaska. I'd prefer simplicity and fixability over excess weight anyday. I've also read Richard Cobb's treatise on flhp. He's also a very long-time member at the club I belong to (Skywhackers in VA), so no problem there if I decide to require advise. Also, as you pointed out, Blue Sky is about 5 hrs from me and would be a good option to get professional instruction, which I believe is a good idea to help save equipment, physical, and self-confidence costs.
User avatar
By RobertKesselring
#397454
Alaska, is that 8000' flight typical or was that an exceptional flight. What is your typical operating ceiling?

I'm still considering options, now leaning more toward the mosquito, which I believe has that same radne engine.
User avatar
By AlaskanNewb
#397456
It is typical. I do it often when not soarable.
I just posted a 360 view after shutting off at 9000AGL and gliding down yesterday on facebook.

here is 30 sec clip:




I recommend a trip to blue sky or some place where you can try one out.
When I got into FLPHG I was soooo annoyed after reading all the horror stories on here. I got all worked up for first launch, I stretched..even did some sprint training in weeks before... thought I was going to have to run real hard because it was a zero wind launch. It was easy as hell.
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