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By skyelevator
#361301
So I was in Beppu Japan about 10 years ago and there was a beautiful hanglider launch ramp (really well built and somewhat radial as I recall) on the mountain behind the city. Mount Tsurumi was the site of the 1981 FAI World Hangliding Championships and there is a tramway to the top with lots of nice facilities up there (and a killer view) at 4,500 feet. The next time I visited the ramp was ripped out and I heard from a local that hangliding was banned due to an accident. Well I was just there a few weeks ago and there was paragliders boating around up there. Just as they have an agreement with Crystal Mountain in WA state (that doesn't include us) I think when it comes to ropeways trams ect resorts and the like will find it easier to accommodate paraglider pilots for obvious reasons. I know there have been a few threads on a "hikeable" designs that haven't changed since the early 80's (Finsterwalder) and a possible (?) hikeable ATOS in the works. I also know that this is more of an issue for Europeans and people who live with smaller apartments and houses (Japan) and use public transport more often.
I'll add that speaking for myself I would pay 6 or $7,000 for a truly hikeable HG, one that sets up in less than 20 minutes and weighs 40-50 pounds. With carbon fiber and other advances there should be a way, and globally at least a market for them too.

I stumbled into this patent that appears to be from the early 90's, but it's hard to make sense of. The PDF has pictures. I cant post a link but just search Sumobrain foldable hanglider. Any thoughts? (sorry for the rambling)
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By red
#361319
skyelevator wrote:I stumbled into this patent that appears to be from the early 90's, but it's hard to make sense of. The PDF has pictures. I cant post a link but just search Sumobrain foldable hanglider. Any thoughts?
Skyelevator,

Here is the .PDF link:

http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/F ... 5132A1.pdf

Not sure if these guys have ever tried to get two tubes telescoped together inside a sail leading edge pocket. :lol: The joint structure is fairly vague in the drawing, and overkill in the text description. As patents go, I think this one would be kinda shaky. I mean, you can draw almost anything, but will it fly? It also might help if they inspected a Finsterwalder HG before they build this airframe. I believe this rig would be at least half again longer than the short-packing Finsterwalders.
I would also want to see the resulting glider pass the truck-testing phases of Certification (HGMA, DHV, et c.).

The practical short-packing, quick set-up HG is still a goal to be pursued, and I hope these guys (or somebody) can make it real.

:mrgreen:
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By miraclepieco
#361323
My ATOS is eminently hikeable. The cart carries virtually all the weight, I just have to pull it. In fact, I have been planning a 3 mile hike-in when the days get a bit longer. If you don't have someone to wheel your cart back to the vehicle, a disposable cart of biodegradable plywood is easy to make. Simply leave it on takeoff to rot away.
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By AndRand
#361336
skyelevator wrote: I know there have been a few threads on a "hikeable" designs that haven't changed since the early 80's (Finsterwalder) and a possible (?) hikeable ATOS in the works. I also know that this is more of an issue for Europeans and people who live with smaller apartments and houses (Japan) and use public transport more often.
I'll add that speaking for myself I would pay 6 or $7,000 for a truly hikeable HG, one that sets up in less than 20 minutes and weighs 40-50 pounds. With carbon fiber and other advances there should be a way, and globally at least a market for them too.
FEXes weight 20-25kg - I can do hikes that I normally do without load in maximum of 45min.

In 20min on track of 50min hike (on empty - 25min. walkabout)
[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1-CW ... .JPG[]/img
Currently we have in Poland only 3 driveable mountain launches for hanggliders - all 3 on mountain range 1000km long. There are lots of paraglider launches but they need hiking, there are launches with cable lifts that are not suitable for long hanggliders - with small cabins or roofed seats so folded wing is also usable there.
Last edited by AndRand on Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By skyelevator
#361347
Ya Red your right on about the load testing, and this thing only looks to short pack to 12' or so. There is one like that already called the Lifter I think. The Fex wings (from what I've read) have a set up time of 30 minutes if your lighting fast, an hour if your slow and methodical. They also are difficult to set up on windy or rough surface launches, again from what I've read. The 80's design doesn't bother me much (Vision HG's are awesome even today as an example) and at 6' they are ok to get on a ropeway or tram. Just cant get past the set time and having to wrestle the sail on in high wind. Have never seen a GOOD video of the set up of these things, I wish someone would post one. As for the future lightweight fast set-up 4' hanglider, it'll probably be Seedwings or someone like that to create one.
By darkcloud
#361351
Ah, memories. I've ridden that tram several times over the last 25 years. Talk about STEEP.
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By AndRand
#361363
skyelevator wrote:The Fex wings (from what I've read) have a set up time of 30 minutes if your lighting fast, an hour if your slow and methodical. They also are difficult to set up on windy or rough surface launches, again from what I've read. The 80's design doesn't bother me much (Vision HG's are awesome even today as an example) and at 6' they are ok to get on a ropeway or tram
Here you go with lightning fast derigging from long - 2:45 (10x faster) :)
https://vimeo.com/77354350
You cannot be not methodical - there is almost only one sequence, if one step is missed, further you will have to go back to this point which is really time consuming, it is good to set it up periodically to be in routine. I set it up in winds up to 6 m/s and had not any additional problems than with long packed wings.
This is my previous Fex which didn't fly well.
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By skyelevator
#361369
Hey thank you for uploading the Fex set up video. I could potentially be convinced to buy one I suppose. Looks to be a 1/2 hour to de-rig and I'm guessing a tad more to rig, when well practiced. Setting up (pulling on that sail) in 14 mph is decent though picturing this done on some of the rough mountain launches in the western U.S. might be another thing. At least the Fex exists and with some effort I might get them to build me one. I guess for the thrill of getting on the ropeway and being able to fly a place like Beppu it might be worth it. Why should paraglider pilots be having all the fun around there..or a bunch of other places I can think of too for that matter.
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By Glide Junkie
#361415
I love to hike and to fly. I'll admit PG has some lures to me, ie the hiking capability, but PGs leave me desiring a better wing, hence why I am a hg pilot. I think telescoping frame is the way to go. Carbon, while expensive and not the most whackable, is light. Finding the right wing material that can handle the compact folding is key, yet I believe making a compact hg would be totally doable. I normally backpack with a 60 lb. pack and could easily handle a 80 lb. pack for shorter hikes and I am not a big brawny male. It would just take a little out of the box thinking and some R&D money, but it sure would reinvigorate our wing span (figuratively of course ;). )

I keep thinking of the foldable origami kayak and think this type of thinking could begin our journey there, kinda like the batso got us to more flexible wings. http://www.psfk.com/2013/08/oru-collapsible-kayak.html
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By jheissjr
#361418
miraclepieco wrote:If you don't have someone to wheel your cart back to the vehicle, a disposable cart of biodegradable plywood is easy to make. Simply leave it on takeoff to rot away.
I’m trying to envision a disposable cart that doesn’t take a lot of time to make. Can you elaborate?
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By kjj3dan
#361419
I've been using a kayak cart to get up the paved road at Daydreams since the gate is locked .It works well but you still have to trudge uphill and then take the cart back down
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By Erik Boehm
#361432
I'll 2nd the use of a small cart.
When I was in Zürich, the guy who let me fly his old glider also had a spare cart. We had to walk our gliders about half a mile to the launch.

I've tried to make a simple sketch of it.

So for each side there was a metal peice with a rectangular cross section, with a hole clear through at the bottom for the axel to go through, a hole only on the "inner side" for a cross member that went to the other side, and a notch for the other metal peice to go through.

The other metal peice was slightly smaller in diameter, and at the bottom there was a hole through it for the axel, this fit inside the notch in the other piece, before the axel was stuck through. It also had a hole for a cross piece.
When the two pieces were put together, they formed a V with the axel at the bottom of the V

So once these two (aluminum) metal peices were assembled with the axel stuck through, and the cross pieces put in, the straps were put on. There was a peice of strap, rectangular, with plastic tabs at the corners. These fit into the hollows at the tops of the "V"
The glider was then put on top ov the straps, and then it was attached by wrapping with normal straps.

Obviously, at some point, wheels were attached to the axels.

The whole thing set up quickly, was very light, and was easily carried in the harness during flight.
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By AndRand
#361436
kjj3dan wrote:I've been using a kayak cart to get up the paved road at Daydreams since the gate is locked .It works well but you still have to trudge uphill and then take the cart back down
As far as for folding carts - it is good when cart can be used for dragging and pushing the glider (uphill). Kayak cart folds itself in one direction and is less useful then.
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By red
#361501
Zeph wrote:From the way back machine. Sleeved keel and x-bar, everything else was cable...........
http://www.hanggliding.org/whitney-port ... 47834.html
Campers,

Coming to you from the bad old days of "NEVER fly higher than you are willing to fall . . ."
and the USHGA monthly magazine was called "Ground Skimmer."
Poor safety record (even for 'way back then). No dive recovery.
Swing seat harness. No wheels. No helmet. PASS! :ahh: :ahh:

:mrgreen:
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By AndRand
#361511
skyelevator wrote:Hey thank you for uploading the Fex set up video. I could potentially be convinced to buy one I suppose. Looks to be a 1/2 hour to de-rig and I'm guessing a tad more to rig, when well practiced. Setting up (pulling on that sail) in 14 mph is decent though picturing this done on some of the rough mountain launches in the western U.S. might be another thing. At least the Fex exists and with some effort I might get them to build me one.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI9xXZwTjbs[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrHuC6RNCLY[/youtube]
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By Zeph
#361518
Wasn't meant as an endorsement, just a bit of history that this idea for ultra portable has been around awhile................
red wrote:
Zeph wrote:From the way back machine. Sleeved keel and x-bar, everything else was cable...........
http://www.hanggliding.org/whitney-port ... 47834.html
Campers,

Coming to you from the bad old days of "NEVER fly higher than you are willing to fall . . ."
and the USHGA monthly magazine was called "Ground Skimmer."
Poor safety record (even for 'way back then). No dive recovery.
Swing seat harness. No wheels. No helmet. PASS! :ahh: :ahh:

:mrgreen:
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By AlaskanNewb
#363032
Go to the gym.
Take the time to carry your glider and enjoy the experience.
A good flight is sooo much better after a long glider carry.

I still can't believe a group of guys carried a glider all the way up denali and flew down. That is something I am seriously thinking I could do. I have climbed the mountain before..I wonder if a short-packed falcon or funfex would be up to the job?
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By AndRand
#363044
AlaskanNewb wrote:That is something I am seriously thinking I could do. I have climbed the mountain before..I wonder if a short-packed falcon or funfex would be up to the job?
Longest hike I had for now (I am just at the beginning) is 45 min. (which is normally 20min). My experience from hike&ski* tells me that 1hr-1h20 is maximum for me with 25kg load. Which is 40-45min climb with <10kg load.
There is one downside - Funfex is very uncomfortable when walking down :|

*I rarely do skitouring, I call our mountains City Park Zakopane (a town nearby) - after snowing at night up till noon all main trails are cleared and tamped so no need for skistours or rockets, which you have to take off anyway on steep and icy climbs.
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By dave hopkins
#363051
Rumor has it that a US company has a proto type hike-able wing being tested. Maybe by spring?
I think a 6' fold rigid is possible. I had a design which would use triangular teleoscoping tubes with carbon outer sleeves and an outboard like a VR. You could get a 40' span. The sail and ribs would slip on like a sock, atos style. It might be heavy? But I would rather fly then build.