All FLPHG stuff goes here
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By red
#322422
Okay, maybe I should say, I am no fan of engines. :lol:

I see a lot of engines that push HGs, and the engines are enclosed by cloth. Most of these units have the fuel inside the cloth, too.

Has anybody considered the possibility of a fuel leak, broken fuel tube, and/or a harness fire? I see no reason for the engine and fuel to be connected to the pilot by anything that can burn. While I may like the "clean" look, you can get that with some sheet aluminum, and connect everything to the pilot with an aluminum frame.

This video shows a home-built version, certainly, but it strikes me as being a far safer design, in the event of a fuel leak or fire. Feel free to "clean up" the engine assembly, but do not connect it to the pilot with any cloth cover.

All IMHO.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-ymLIa8Dz4[/youtube]
By Fletcher
#322424
I agree Red
.As we all know Sh-t happens and I hate to think about a fire in the sky.
A friend had a Minimum trike system (do they still make them?) from Europe,the fuel tank hung directly above the pilot and in front ot the engine. In a fuel tank or line leak the fuel would leak on the pilot and engine. Not a comfortable thought.

You are a valuable resource to the flying community
Thanks for your continued input on a wide variety of related subjects.

Fly High Be Free
Fletcher
By Buran
#322436
i agree.
te first thing i though seeing powered harnesses is "take a trike if you want to fly powered..."

the latest electric engines seems much safer to me, even if electric doesn't mean fireproof.
and finally i can't understand why nobody has still realized an electric engine on the wing; at least if something goes really wrong you can cut all out and
chute to the ground alone...
User avatar
By Windlord
#322448
Very good point Red. Sam's video shows that he is doing his homework and research.
Sorting things out on your own in a foreign country with little aviation resources, I think Sam is doing one heck of a job. :thumbsup:
User avatar
By red
#322463
Windlord,

Samarth has always impressed me, for his research, innovation, and willingness to listen. I wish him the best.

Buran,

If the thrust line of the propeller does not pass through the pilot's body, then the glider goes wildly unstable in the slightest turbulence. You would have a "tuck machine" in flight, even if no mechanical problems come up. It's been tried (not with electrics, certainly) and with any real turbulence, disaster was the result. A Gemini set-up can work, but even that thrust line can make it wise to chop power in turbulence.

:mrgreen:
User avatar
By AlatusIan
#322468
Clearly you van never say it will never happen... but how often do the scenarios you describe actually happen? If fuel leaks do you believe it will instantly ignite? Take a look at the thousands of Fresh Breeze paramotors with fuel tanks above the engine. Many early flexwing Microlights had similarly placed fuel tanks too.
User avatar
By red
#322475
AlatusIan wrote:Clearly you van never say it will never happen... but how often do the scenarios you describe actually happen? If fuel leaks do you believe it will instantly ignite? Take a look at the thousands of Fresh Breeze paramotors with fuel tanks above the engine. Many early flexwing Microlights had similarly placed fuel tanks too.
Alatusian,

My beliefs are not relevant; Murphy RULES, in aviation. Components do get old, and vibration takes its' toll. Things that never broke before can break, next week.

As for the Fresh Breeze units, I have no information on their safety record, and they are open construction, not enclosed by cloth in the same package as the pilot. That unit is not part of this discussion. Besides, there is no requirement that any such safety records be posted where we can see them.

I will say this: I believe that every pilot should make the best possible choices, for their own safety.
User avatar
By AlatusIan
#322493
Red, you are being a little selective here... if you really believed that you wouldn't fly hang gliders at all!
User avatar
By samarth2004
#322584
Dear Fellow Pilots,

Thanks for the kind words, behind my success story there are many good friends from across the world....they helped when I was in need and still alive to tell the tale and continue with my passion.
The fire thing is the first thing that came into my mind when I started making the FLPHG, I dug through few old downloaded pics and came across these, indeed this was scary and due to this I avoided using any fabric even if it was a fireproof one.

Cheers!
Samarth
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User avatar
By red
#322590
samarth2004 wrote:Dear Fellow Pilots,
Thanks for the kind words, behind my success story there are many good friends from across the world....they helped when I was in need and still alive to tell the tale and continue with my passion.
The fire thing is the first thing that came into my mind when I started making the FLPHG, I dug through few old downloaded pics and came across these, indeed this was scary and due to this I avoided using any fabric even if it was a fireproof one.
Cheers!
Samarth
Samarth,

I am happy to hear, those were not your pictures! 8) It is always better to learn from the experience of others. The pictures are very frightening. I am guessing that the fire happened on or near the ground, because I would expect the rear to burn completely, in flight.

I started this thread to help avoid such disasters, in mid-air. I am happy to see, your own design is built to minimize this danger. I had not seen any pictures of fire damage on any powered harness, but it seemed to be inevitable, to me. Components do get old, and someday, something will break. I like your design. It seems much safer, in the event of a fire.

I am no expert (I am not even a beginner) on powered hang gliders. Your knowledge is valuable here.

:mrgreen:
User avatar
By AlatusIan
#322598
Well it could be a good idea to actually state what happened in those pictures...

The owner had converted the harness to a LiPo battery and chosen to mount it at the bottom of his harness. Having got airborne he went prone and pushed his feet hard back in a harness that was slightly too small for him and pushed the battery into the large pulley of the reduction drive which set it alight. So it was a case of an owner tinkering a ,machine away from standard. There are many cases of all forms of aircraft having issues when owners deviate from original design.
User avatar
By Darbbb
#322602
AlatusIan wrote:Well it could be a good idea to actually state what happened in those pictures...

The owner had converted the harness to a LiPo battery and chosen to mount it at the bottom of his harness. Having got airborne he went prone and pushed his feet hard back in a harness that was slightly too small for him and pushed the battery into the large pulley of the reduction drive which set it alight. So it was a case of an owner tinkering a ,machine away from standard. There are many cases of all forms of aircraft having issues when owners deviate from original design.
So you're saying "accidents happen," which I believe was Red's original point. :)

Brad
User avatar
By AlatusIan
#322606
Yes I am, whether or not your hang glider has a powered harness attached to it or not. How many times do non-hang gliding friends say they wouldn't do what you do... too risky. Yet you know the risks are acceptable so you do it.