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User avatar
By joefaust
#404758
========================================
Here is a sample statement in involuntarylist:
Bill Cummings H4 and this H5 via S-SA.
AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC Since 1980. VideoChannel
===========================================

Note that involuntarylist neglects FL stating.
In Q&A (which is ever open for developing):
Why do I not see "FL" stated?
FL is majorly assumed as involuntarylist realm does not cover towing, power, tandem. We have taken off FL where it was once stated. Though FL is not universal, it is nearly so. Wheeled rolling launch, tow launch, aero tow, foot-launch aero tow, human-powered launch, bungee launch, balloon-drop launch, blimp launch, wind-only prone launch, etc. are skills pilots may develop; but these will not be stated in involuntarylist. However, links following a pilot's rating statement in involuntarylist may well lead to knowing his or her full skill set.
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Anyone? Do you wish some term to be addressed in the glossary?
http://www.involuntarylist.org/glossary.html
User avatar
By joefaust
#404787
The Conduct Code page invites instructors, experienced HG pilots, and thoughtful persons to send in suggested text :
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What might be your conduct gem for yourself or others?
http://www.involuntarylist.org/conductcode.html

RHG :: recreational hang gliding
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User avatar
By joefaust
#404790
USHGS
will present a terse text for that file instead of the shown in prior post
New:
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Local group of recreational pilots will format and write and practice their own local conduct codes.
User avatar
By BubbleBoy
#404878
REALLY?

Adding pilots to the ratings lists without their permission?

That's a real scumbaggery way to make it look bigger and more accepted than it is right there.

JB
User avatar
By joefaust
#404879
Just getting started. Tiny compared to the facts. Ratings are public facts. You are free to make your own lists.
What is your rating? involuntarylist states only its own certified ratings. Rather, consider how some other org erases ratings and then charges for restating; or it voids ratings for repugnant causes. Let involuntarylist.org open file on your rating scene; let's see what you have. No fee. Cannot be withdraw. Certified. Currency via pilot file.
http://www.involuntarylist.org/
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User avatar
By BubbleBoy
#404880
// "Just getting started." //

Great. What a shitty thing to do to harvest names and include people who have zero interest in being included (especially the well known names to make it look like they've bought into the gig).

Turns out not only can you have any rating you want, you're going to have a rating whether you (knowingly) WANT it or not.

Thankfully the entire charade is destined for miserable failure even with (and/or because of) the clear used car salesman nonsense (bookmark it).

JB
User avatar
By joefaust
#404882
Please name a certified rated pilot who does not want to be included. Thanks.
User avatar
By joefaust
#404887
joefaust wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:06 pm
Here is a sample
pilot's rating line:
Lyle Anderson H4
:)
BubbleBoy,
At involuntarylist, a pilot may not be certified to his or her "want" for merely wanting. The certification process is meta-want, if you will. So, if you meant your comment about involuntarylist, then you've mischaracterized the matter. If you were extrapolating my comment about anyone may make their own lists, then you may have a point; yes, you may make a list of pilot ratings and include yourself and state anything you wish. Go for it, if that is what you want. However, the process at involuntarylist.org is quite different.
Have you opened a file with involuntarylist.org yet concerning you? Case will be opened just upon your emailing ratings@involuntarylist.org with some relevant data; such will begin a substantial process.
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User avatar
By joefaust
#404962
Pilot Pages have three sections:
= Statement of certified rating.
=Voluntary information from the pilot
= Interest-enhancing notes and links related to the pilot.
Two samples for Pilot Page
here: Mark G. Forbes

and here: Logan J. Remillard

The paths have changed for reaching the stated rating.
===============================
Filler regarding HG landing safety design efforts
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User avatar
By DMarley
#404969
Joe,
So now you're adding to your list dead pilots and pilots who have obviously no desire to be on your list?
You're obviously attempting to legitimize your little club by incredibly ill means. Deceased pilots? Really?
Mark Forbes? Really? And you're linking to Mark's videos that don't indicate who the pilot is in each vid?
I would be highly surprised to hear that Mark gave you permission to put his endorsement on your club by adding his name to your list of pilots.
You're club is appearing to be more and more ill-conceived and ill-guided. Is that the kind of organization that you want to be known as? The kind of club who's leaders would induct deceased pilots? Would you also vote in public elections under the name of deceased voters?
Have some respect at least for the deceased if not for yourself.
User avatar
By DMarley
#404970
And I just saw that you put Larry Tudor's name on your ill-begotten list. Did you get his permission, or did you merely stick in it there because you knew his name?
And then his name is linked to your friend's site that has ridiculous posts of Larry being put to death in Korea, of Larry killing himself, of all sorts of ridiculous rhetoric pointing to Larry Tudor. You should be terribly ashamed of yourself.
You are giving all of us pilots a bad name by doing this underhanded bs.
User avatar
By joefaust
#404973
DMarley wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:26 am
Joe,
So now you're adding to your list dead pilots and pilots who have obviously no desire to be on your list?
You're obviously attempting to legitimize your little club by incredibly ill means. Deceased pilots? Really?
Mark Forbes? Really? And you're linking to Mark's videos that don't indicate who the pilot is in each vid?
I would be highly surprised to hear that Mark gave you permission to put his endorsement on your club by adding his name to your list of pilots.
You're club is appearing to be more and more ill-conceived and ill-guided. Is that the kind of organization that you want to be known as? The kind of club who's leaders would induct deceased pilots? Would you also vote in public elections under the name of deceased voters?
Have some respect at least for the deceased if not for yourself.
DMarley,
Your note seems to be missing facts, assuming what is not fact, and then building statements on assumptions or beliefs that miss the mark about involuntarylist.

1. involuntarylist is not a club, not an association, but an agency for certifying recreational hang glider ratings proposed by facts witnessed. There is no memberships offered nor accepted. The agent is independent of other entities. One does not join involuntarylist, dead or alive. involuntarylist goes through a profound checking process. One cannot obtain a statement of a rating by virtue of asking or applying. One may submit data on one's behalf or on the behalf of another recreational pilot as an instructor, observer, mentor, airman, etc. Submitting data about a recreational pilot--dead or alive--does not force a production of a rating process; but if a rating process occurs resulting in a statement by involuntarylist, then that pilot has for life and beyond a rating stated by involuntarylist.

2. From the beginning of hang gliding history pilots ---dead or alive---have been rated . involuntarylist continues that strong historically based tradition.

3. So far, only one rated pilot asked for a taking off their Pilot Page some image and non-core information about themselves. involuntarylist will respond to requests with careful consideration.

4. involuntarylist adds statements in Pilot Pages and on the indexing lists only after a recreational hang glider pilot has shown public recreational hang gliding activity. It is the aim of involuntarylist to rate to H0 through H4 only every pilot that shows evidence of having a flight connection with the airspace over the United States or its possessions. involuntarylist keeps an interest in deceased recreational hang glider pilots.

5. involuntarylist has no need to ask a dead or alive recreational pilot whether they want or want not to be rated for hang gliding proficiency. But involuntarylist receives requests for being rated.

6. It is beneficial and honorable to pay attention to recreational hang glider pilots who have died; certifying their hang gliding rating is part of the mission of involuntarylist.

7. There are three sections to the involuntarylist Pilot Page: a. Statement of rating that has been certified. b. Data supplied by the subject pilot that is fit for public display; we hold unpublished information not fit for public display; the submitter has much to say about what goes in that section or not. c. Information that might enhance interest in the subject pilot.

8. The third section on the Pilot Page is about enhancing interest; that section does not necessarily affect involuntarylist certification process; rather, the video links and links to articles and documents in that section may not have been part of the certification process.

9. That involuntarylist states a certified rating for a pilot does not mean anything about endorsement or not. involuntarylist trades nothing for its certification processing. involuntarylist is blind to endorsements or non endorsements. There is no essential need to ask a pilot if she or he is going to be rating certified by involuntarylist; if the pilot has shown publicly, then they are potentially in the view of involuntarylist rating certification domain.

10. Doug, you are invited to start a case about your rating with involuntarylist. A case file has not yet been started about your rating. But it may get opened soon; an email from you to ratings@involuntarylist.org would trigger opening a case file leading to a certified rating statement and construction of a Pilot Page about you. Send data and have others send data about you; records from your instructors, mentors, observers, and examiners are receivables for the involuntarylist process. And documents and links to information that surround you are welcome for involuntarylist review for possible placement in the second and third section of the Pilot Page. You are welcome to trigger the process. sooner or later.

Honor your fathers and mothers; honor those who have gone before us and who live yet , though deceased. To forget Volmer Jensen or Larry Tudor would be a great loss. involuntarylist aims to keep the won assets of recreational hang gliding alive to all who are concerned. Doug, you are welcome to submit interesting links about Larry or other HG pilots; involuntarylist is not responsible for what history is showing about pilots.

I hope I have addressed your concerns; if not, we may go another round on any point in hopes to clarify matters. You are invited to reach to see what is the case before leaping to fly dark statements. Reach for potential light and hold out for a perspective that may be helpful.

Lifts,
Joe Faust
for teaming at involuntarylist
Just occurring:
PS: HGpilots/DouglasMarley.html has been constructed; the content will develop over time. :)
=================================
Filler: Dave Chapman about to rocket:
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User avatar
By DMarley
#404975
You are creating an ill-gotten database of names only, then, with absolutely no meaning except to attempt to give your club more "credibility" only through the number of pilots listed, which is low-handed trickery and political bs. The only people that will give your list any look will be non-pilots, because they are clueless about this sport. This will likely come out and back-fire on you.
You had better not put my name and ratings and links to my information in your ridiculous nazi-type black-list without my full and absolute permission. You will have many many pilots angry with you if you continue this dishonest child's game.

You are listing deceased pilots only for your own and your club's benefit, not for any other. And coloring it in the light that you have is terribly irresponsible. If you truly wanted to honor these pilots, you would generate a completely separate list within a completely separate context, completely seperate from your club's influence, with more information than what you have here as a way honoring them. As it is now, you are merely attempting to generate a high head-count to your list and you don't care if they're alive or deceased, active or not active, or even if they don't give you permission to list them. You are grasping at straws in order to make your club appear like it has the backing of many pilots when in fact it has very little backing. Despicable. I believed at one time that Joe Faust was a respected class act.

I do not give you any permission to list me and my ratings and anything else that is related to me and my HG/sailplane/GA flying.
I demand that you, nor anyone related to/with your club or organization or whatever you call yourselves, never refer to me in any way within your list of ill-gotten names.
I hope that is clear enough.
It would be dishonorable of me to allow my name to be on your meaningless list.
User avatar
By DMarley
#404976
joefaust wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:45 am
...
Just occurring:
PS: HGpilots/DouglasMarley.html has been constructed; the content will develop over time. :)
=================================
Filler: Dave Chapman about to rocket:
Makapuu.JPG
Joseph Faust....
I demand that you remove my name from your list. Remove it now.
User avatar
By DMarley
#404977
I do not want my name to be associated with your ill-gotten list of deceased pilots and gullible pilots and other pilots that never gave you permission to use their good names. I demand you to remove MY GOOD NAME right away, Joe Faust!
Last edited by DMarley on Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By BubbleBoy
#404978
Each time the involuntarylist is brought up I'm going to do that organization an favor. I'm going to remind those responsible to do the absolute best thing they could do for the promotion of their cause:

Please post a list of all HG flying sites in the US that have a requirement for pilots to hold ratings/certifications that now accept involuntarylist ratings in lieu of the ratings previously required. Watching this list 'grow' (hahaha) will be both a measure of your actual progress/success and extremely helpful to pilots. (cue the moronic 'helpful to who and how?' crap from Red)

You want to do your organization some good? -- THAT'S the list that is important, not some fake BS list of 'rated' pilots (dead and alive, but not actually participating).

This has been a public service announcement/request

JB
User avatar
By joefaust
#404980
Doug,
1. involuntarylist is not a club. See former post. Thanks.
2. involuntarylist is in the process of rating your public-presented hang gliding to a rating level.
3. involuntarylist will not be taking off a file about you. But if some public fact on the page is untrue, then please point such out for amends; thank you for your cooperation and GOOD wholesome attitude.
Time stamp image shown:
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Last edited by joefaust on Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By DMarley
#404981
Joe
How the hell do you believe that, by listing pilots who have no desire to be on your list, you are enamoring yourself to the HG populace? You are poisoning pilots to your cause.
DELETE MY NAME OFF YOUR LIST!!!
User avatar
By DMarley
#404982
Tell ya what, Joe.
If you're gonna put out false information as you just did with my name on your fictitious list, please give me a rating of H-0, and oh yeah, PG-0. You had better delete my name.

The only reason why you are so bold as to put my name on your fictitious list when I told you not to is because you believe I am no where near you. It would be wise to reconsider your assumptions.

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