This forum is dedicated to discussions on how to grow the sport of hang gliding. We will take a methodical approach to collect data and come up with implementable ideas on how to increase our numbers. This includes effective marketing, lead generation, site access issues, improving regulations, lack of instructors, lack of sites, etc

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User avatar
By littlepilot
#368348
designbydave wrote:
ryder115 wrote:
littlepilot wrote: what we need is some sort of great presentation of young people flying that can not only be shown to youtube or whatever....but made accessable to the world...i know its crazy but wouldnt someone sponsor an hour long documentary on a group of "remarkable young people with a passion?" something like dreaming awake quality?
This needs to happen!! I'm in!
With as many excellent videographers as there seem to be in the hg community, it's not a long shot to at least try to get a good quality YouTube documentary up.
https://vimeo.com/46406544

thats pretty cool dave. what a need production.

I was thinking something a little more spicy though....
custom gliders
aerobatics
cross countries
lots of epic soaring skies

that kind of thing but going to each of these people in their "native" sites....idk....im a dreamer
By Xpanse
#368366
This is one of the best hang gliding fims I ever watched!
User avatar
By flysurfski
#368370
Brian wrote: Sad fact is almost every young person I know who's involved in the sport is the child of a pilot or instructor. One or two were locals who started working for the flight park and earned their wings the hard way!
In my case it was an older brother and sister that were instructors at KHK. They both learned the hard way working for KHK. :mrgreen:

I learned the easy way. It is called the South Side Point of the Mountain. :drool:
User avatar
By ryder115
#368403
littlepilot wrote:
designbydave wrote:
ryder115 wrote: This needs to happen!! I'm in!
With as many excellent videographers as there seem to be in the hg community, it's not a long shot to at least try to get a good quality YouTube documentary up.
https://vimeo.com/46406544

thats pretty cool dave. what a need production.

I was thinking something a little more spicy though....
custom gliders
aerobatics
cross countries
lots of epic soaring skies

that kind of thing but going to each of these people in their "native" sites....idk....im a dreamer
Ive seen Live the Dream, and its an awesome film, but I agree littlepilot, something "spicy" would be more like it!
User avatar
By Takeo77
#368406
Lent this young lady one of my GoPros and been trying to get her into a flying scholarship, but it's clear her parents have her back 100% which is why she is where she is. I think a Hang-0 to Hang-3 video series would probably be good, and maybe a special forum for getting a hold of starter equipment for young pilots would be a place to start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQOPMmKJ8Vc[/GVideo]
User avatar
By OverloadUT
#368407
If your goal is to attract young pilots, an hour long documentary is NOT the way to do it. The only people watching something like that, with few exceptions, are people that are already interested in one way or another.

We need something more like a commercial. 30-90 seconds tops, and it should give just enough information about the sport to entice interest. It's a commercial. There's a reason that every brand on the planet produces commercials: they work.

And then of course the ideal would be to actually run this video as preroll ads on YouTube. Target extreme sports, outdoor activities, and active lifestyles. This costs money of course, and there would need to be a good page that the ad would actually send users to. There are many options for that.

Hell, I can imagine an ad campaign that is run by donations. Ask pilots to chip in for the good of expanding the sport - so long as the ad pointed people at a nice location-agnostic modern-feeling website (ie: nothing like this forum ;) ) that gives interested future-pilots all of the information they need to start getting training, it would benefit all of us.

I'd even be super interested in running the business side of this (managing the ad campaign, maintaining the website) but I don't have the skill or vision necessary to actually produce the ads themselves. I could see running the whole crowd-funded ad campaign completely transparently, where everyone can see exactly how many ad impressions and clicks and conversions (where available) were driven by the ads.

I actually really like this idea a lot!
User avatar
By boarini2003
#368410
I don't want to be cynical, but I just don't think any sort of media blitz, commercials, promotions, or anything will really make much difference. I'm not against it, I just don't think it's a panacea. Firstly, as Davis correctly says, it's very much a local sport. Local activity involves local people, who spread the word. Secondly, it's all out there for anyone to see, on their phones or computers, a click away. Incredible videos on YouTube, Vimeo, pictures, great content shared on social media, Instagram, etc. etc. etc. It's all there. If you're not stimulated by that stuff, you don't want it. Apparently todays younger generation needs things served to them on a silver platter and a smiley face, but as they say, you can lead the horse to water, but you cannot make it drink, and the horse doesn't want to drink.
User avatar
By OverloadUT
#368413
boarini2003 wrote:I don't want to be cynical, but I just don't think any sort of media blitz, commercials, promotions, or anything will really make much difference. I'm not against it, I just don't think it's a panacea. Firstly, as Davis correctly says, it's very much a local sport. Local activity involves local people, who spread the word. Secondly, it's all out there for anyone to see, on their phones or computers, a click away. Incredible videos on YouTube, Vimeo, pictures, great content shared on social media, Instagram, etc. etc. etc. It's all there. If you're not stimulated by that stuff, you don't want it. Apparently todays younger generation needs things served to them on a silver platter and a smiley face, but as they say, you can lead the horse to water, but you cannot make it drink, and the horse doesn't want to drink.
Your misconception here is that people will find those videos without being pushed towards them. I believe that the idea that "marketing won't help" is incorrect. It would require a well-thought-out campaign and a good resource for people to find their local schools to get started, but once that's in place a paid media campaign would help immensely.

As I said, every single major brand in the world, even ones that are a highly local-community things, advertises.

Yes, people aren't interested. But that stems from a lack of awareness, which is the entire point of advertising: tell them it exists, and people will find themselves interested that never even realized it was a possibility before. People that are already seeking out videos for hang gliding are NOT your target audience here. Those people are already interested and most of the way there. There is a different form of advertising used to capture those potential customers - what I'm talking about is the step before that one.

Also, when randomly searching YouTube for videos they are generally not educational which is a big missing element here. Helping people understand that hang gliders are aircrafts that can fly and stay in the air for hours at a time is a very simple fundamental fact about the sport that very few people actually realize. That's what a quality 30 second ad will help communicate. Consider GoPro's phenomenally successful campaign: they use 30 second ads to show that you can "be a hero" - it's a thing people didn't even think possible, but now they know if they buy a GoPro they too can do these cool things. It works. They wouldn't spend millions upon millions of dollars on it if it did not.
User avatar
By red
#368416
Campers,

I'd favor the "commercial ad" approach to growing the sport, maybe 30 to 60 seconds long. These ads could lead all interested people to web pages or longer videos; both would be good.

A newspaper want ad for "flying lessons, $15" with a phone number, got me started. The modern equivalents on social media or YouTube really might help people get started. Huge investments are not needed. A great video collection would be fine, but we have enough now to get going, until better videos are made.

I'd send some money to support good video efforts, but only by SnailMail. Any video aces needing funds might consider having a mailing address available, for people who want to avoid putting money on the Internet.

All IMHO, of course.

:mrgreen:
By blindrodie
#368418
Hay Takeo77 that Ashley is a natural in my book.

GET HER SOME EYE WEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One will find it hard to fly without sight.

Sorry to go off topic. Felt it was worthy here...

8)
User avatar
By Takeo77
#368420
blindrodie wrote:Hay Takeo77 that Ashley is a natural in my book.

GET HER SOME EYE WEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


8)
I have suggested that to her. I fly with glasses, but I've had enough crap in my face to order some prescription ballistic lenses (hey I can use em for shooting too k?) so that's in the works.

She flies very well.
User avatar
By designbydave
#368422
Forget commercials. People hate and automatically tune out commercials. If I see an add before any youtube video I will either click the skip add as soon as available or just close the video all together. Commercial advertising works for major brands not small niche activities like hang gliding.

You guys are about 50% of the way there in your thinking. Yes we need to use the internet for promotion, but not in old school ways. You are bringing old school thinking into a new school world and a new school generation.

I started hang gliding after watching videos on youtube. I didn't need an add to direct me there, I found it and latched on and so will others. Several individuals have informed me that they started flying as a direct result of watching my films. Well, there you have it, one proven medium that gets people to fly. It worked on me, it has worked on others.

And here we are again, everyone talking about how they would gladly put money into supporting video projects, yet only 60 people have put their money where their keyboards are. -
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the- ... oject#home

These guys are doing exactly what we need to do. The only thing we can do that is affordable and effective at promoting hang gliding.

Less endless forum speculating / armchair promoting, more actually supporting.
User avatar
By designbydave
#368423
red wrote:I'd send some money to support good video efforts, but only by SnailMail. Any video aces needing funds might consider having a mailing address available, for people who want to avoid putting money on the Internet.
That's nice of you to offer Red, but time to get with the 21st century bud. Use a credit card and your transactions are secure. For certain crowd funding platforms all the money has to be collected in one spot of the creator gets nothing (Kickstarter.)
User avatar
By OverloadUT
#368425
designbydave wrote:Forget commercials. People hate and automatically tune out commercials.
Sorry dude, you are just plain wrong here.

Companies all around the world would not be spending hundreds of billions of dollars every year if they didn't work.
User avatar
By designbydave
#368426
OverloadUT wrote:...Your misconception here is that people will find those videos without being pushed towards them. I believe that the idea that "marketing won't help" is incorrect. It would require a well-thought-out campaign and a good resource for people to find their local schools to get started, but once that's in place a paid media campaign would help immensely.
I heavily disagree. Those that truly want to fly, the people that will take not just one tandem but learn to fly, buy a wing, join the local clubs, already know they want to fly. Almost every pilot I know has had that life long fascination with flight. Its not some fad "oh look at that cool thingy, stunt, etc." It's "oh holy s--- I can actually afford my OWN aircraft and I can fly for like no money once I get lessons!"

The people that want to fly WILL find it if we put it out there for them. That means continuing to put out quality web content as well as a general attitude of friendliness and openness.

Everyone already HAS a "well-thought-out campaign and a good resource for people to find their local schools to get started" its called the internet. You are on it right now. What we need is the trigger. The film or video that a prospective student might watch that will make them open another tab in their web browser and google "hang gliding [location]"
User avatar
By designbydave
#368427
OverloadUT wrote:
designbydave wrote:Forget commercials. People hate and automatically tune out commercials.
Sorry dude, you are just plain wrong here.

Companies all around the world would not be spending hundreds of billions of dollars every year if they didn't work.
Yes they work for products and services that appeal to general audiences, like Coke or GoPros. The main point I'm trying to get across is that hang gliding is not and will never be a "general audience" product. The sooner we drop that fantasy the sooner we can get some actual work done.
User avatar
By OverloadUT
#368429
designbydave wrote:I heavily disagree. Those that truly want to fly, the people that will take not just one tandem but learn to fly, buy a wing, join the local clubs, already know they want to fly. Almost every pilot I know has had that life long fascination with flight. Its not some fad "oh look at that cool thingy, stunt, etc." It's "oh holy s*** I can actually afford my OWN aircraft and I can fly for like no money once I get lessons!"
I am personally a contradiction to this. Anecdotal evidence of course, but I always knew I wanted to fly, but had no idea that hang gliding was what it is. I nearly took up wing-suiting because of ads that I saw. If I had seen a hang gliding ad instead I would have taken up this sport a lot earlier.

I've talked to many others that were the same: they just plain didn't realize that hang gliding was even an actual option, because they were never exposed to it, or the only exposure that they had was in popular media which was usually negative. My idea would expose people to the positive stuff and do it where they are already visiting.

Anyway I don't really need to convince you. You can go and execute your own efforts to bring more people in to the sport and I can go do mine. Hopefully they'll both work!
designbydave wrote:Yes they work for products and services that appeal to general audiences, like Coke or GoPros. The main point I'm trying to get across is that hang gliding is not and will never be a "general audience" product. The sooner we drop that fantasy the sooner we can get some actual work done.
They also work for non-general-audience products and services, and the Internet has enabled them to be more effective than ever due to the ability to do highly accurate user targeting. Everybody advertises. It works.
User avatar
By designbydave
#368430
OverloadUT wrote:
designbydave wrote:I heavily disagree. Those that truly want to fly, the people that will take not just one tandem but learn to fly, buy a wing, join the local clubs, already know they want to fly. Almost every pilot I know has had that life long fascination with flight. Its not some fad "oh look at that cool thingy, stunt, etc." It's "oh holy s*** I can actually afford my OWN aircraft and I can fly for like no money once I get lessons!"
I am personally a contradiction to this. Anecdotal evidence of course, but I always knew I wanted to fly, but had no idea that hang gliding was what it is.
Of course my evidence is also anecdotal [Anecdotal evidence is an oxymoron.] so you are correct to call me on that.

I just think that spending money on advertisements is mostly a waste. Most of the people that are going to see that add are people that will never consider even taking a tandem. That money would be much better spent on the production of quality films themselves and rely on the already present power of social media and things like youtube's "recommendation" engine to get prospective views.

But in the interest of full disclosure I am of course biased in this discussion because I am a film maker that needs funding for my projects.
User avatar
By TomGalvin
#368432
designbydave wrote:I just think that spending money on advertisements is mostly a waste. Most of the people that are going to see that add are people that will never consider even taking a tandem.
Filson paid all costs associated with the short I posted above. It was a staff pick on Vimeo(http://vimeo.com/86651195) and was the subject of much discussion on many outdoor and media blogs. Filson was looking to tell a story that represented the aspirations of their customers, and based on the comments I have read it touched people. If you have not watched it, don't dismiss the approach.

Only a small percentage of the population will ever try hang gliding, but if that small percentage is not exposed to it, then they will not try it. This ad is an example. 99.999% of the people who saw it never became pilots. But what percentage of new pilots during that time were drawn in by it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ87pBjQt0k[/youtube]


If hang gliding is used for the feeling it evokes to sell non hang gliding stuff to the general public, then it will get it in front of non pilots. YouTube videos for the most part are preaching to the choir. Redbull is the only exception I know of, and it tends to play up the extreme aspect. Most of the pilots I know fly for reasons closer to what Ed talks about in the Filson ad or the feelings evoked in the Wrigley ad.