This forum is dedicated to discussions on how to grow the sport of hang gliding. We will take a methodical approach to collect data and come up with implementable ideas on how to increase our numbers. This includes effective marketing, lead generation, site access issues, improving regulations, lack of instructors, lack of sites, etc

Moderator: mods

Hang gliding.org

youtube
4
14%
gopro
3
11%
USHPA
1
4%
Better access to instructors
15
54%
I dont want anymore yahoos in my airspace
5
18%
By Phoenix
#234482
Why would you want to grow the Sport, it is a perfectly fine glider.
Making it bigger would only cause handling problems. Unless
there should be some kind of threesome glider (has that been done)?
Anyway thats WAY too kinky! :lol:
User avatar
By jjcote
#234502
I've got some spare room in my yard where I used to grow strawberries, if I could plant a Sport there and cultivate it, I'd be happy to reap the harvest. I'd love to grow Sports! But I fear that planting a Sport in my yard would probably result in broken downtubes and broken arms, or worse...
User avatar
By peanuts
#234507
what about individual contact or any of the miriad other ways the public could be made aware of the sport. you need about 20 other possibilities added to your poll. but then again, if someone wants to fly, they'll find their way...
User avatar
By HGXC
#234517
sg wrote:People need to be aware of the sport first. I didnt even KNOW you could go hang gliding until I was almost 30 :shock:

I also think there are some bad assumptions out there. The reasons more people sign up for PG lessons, is the lower entry barriers in the beginning, IMO.

So its really (in this order)

1) awareness
2) access to training/instructors
3) quickness/ease of training
4) available locations for H2's to fly

Every point of this "pipeline" needs to be optimized or you will lose a percentage of students at every step where it gets hard.

The further down the pipeline you get them, the greater the "hook" and the lower the probability of drop out.

:ditto: :thumbsup:

Dennis
User avatar
By TomGalvin
#234520
Between Groupon, Zozi and related sites, many instructors are being swamped this season. I predict that the used single surface market will be tighter this year than ever.
User avatar
By Hangskier
#235086
Everyone I talk to about hang gliding think it’s dangerous. I think most people think things are dangerous if they have never seen it, or have no idea about it (marketing exposure).

It seems to me that sports that really take off are the ones that have a combination of ease of manufacturing products for market exposure, and ease of access to sites for use with minimum regulations. You will never see HG’s in REI even though one can buy a jet from Sam’s Club.

My observations on the east coast of sports that have really taken off from years ago to present are: windsurfing, wakeboarding, kite surfing, kayaking, and now paddle boards and wake skating. Kids are wakeboarding in canals and ponds by 4wheelers and winches because boats are so expensive

Others that have taking off some: barefoot waterskiing, biking, and motocross.

Surfing, snow skiing, hunting and fishing are popular and are holding their own. But airsports in general are no more popular than in years past and are just holding their own. Sailing has been dying in our area and now the city has sponsored junior classes to help grow sailors and continue the interest.

In one way, one would think that sports that the entire family can participate in actually grow but that is not necessarily the case. I think marketing has a lot to do with it. Anyone can start manufacturing kayaks, fishing rods, water skies, and even boats, but aircraft are a little different. We are probably lucky that the few HG manufactures in the world are still in business. And they probably would not have survived at times if they were just a business instead of part of their life. I think airparks have done a lot for the growth of the sport but now it seems many of them are in it for the money, but a park could not survive without tandem thrill rides with no intention of getting the passenger into the sport.

So a long story short: When money can be made, someone will manufacture a product and expose to the market (fad or not) and it grows. I think the manufactures in our sport are in it for the passion and not the money. As well as HG pilots are in the sport for the passion. Welcome to the unique passion sport of HGing.

Whatever happened to hobie cats, and windsurfing?
Last edited by Hangskier on Tue May 03, 2011 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By sam kellner
#235102
deeprecon1, thanks for the topic/poll. Instructors it is.........

sg, thanks for the forum,
sg wrote:Once again its all about entry barriers
How do you become an instructor:
1. Verift that you meet the experience requirements.......
2. Obtain a standard Red Cross First aid card.................
3. Complete FOI (Fundamentals of Instruction) test.............

4. For Basic Instructor candidates: contact an Instructor Administrator to schedule a three-phase IP ,
a . Instructor training seminar
b. apprenticeship,
c. Instructor evaluation.....

My question is about #4. What does this really consist of?
1. I've never been to a seminar (and kinda proud). Can't we just go fly?
2. apprenticeship?? days? weeks? months?
3. the evaluation is less of a worry for me, if #1 and #2 were accomplished.

Adding the increase in membership dues for Instructor insurance, and the cost of the IP. That alone could be a barrier for a lot of Basic qualified pilots who have been mentors for years.

What does #4 really consist of and what's the average cost? Thanks, Sam
Last edited by sam kellner on Tue May 03, 2011 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#235103
#4 involves attending a clinic, which is typically 3 days... some are longer, some can be as short as 2 (rare)...

Clinic availability can be an issue for some. If you're near a hang gliding hot-spot, chances are better there will be a few people there wanting to take a clinic, so the administrator can come to your location. Clinic fee is usually a little higher when the admin has to travel to you. If there is not a clinic near you, then travel to a location where a clinic is scheduled may be required.

I am aware this issue can be a pain in the butt... possibly the biggest pain of the whole process. The clinic itself is usually pretty fun :thumbsup:

The apprenticeship consists of a sign-off sheet, which the instructor(s) you apprentice with sign as you accomplish tasks (such as giving a ground school, for ex). Pretty easy stuff... just gets you out on the hill, going through the motions, while still having the opportunity to learn from someone that's already been doing it for a while (and they can learn from you, too!)
User avatar
By sam kellner
#235127
Ryan, Thanks for your article in this month's mag. It was so easy to read. Brought out the real spirit of hang gliding. Anyone who has never pioneered a site just don't know what their missing. :mosh:

Someone is doing the "right stuff" to get exposure. :thumbsup: Lot's of optimism recently. Some real strategy being used. We already need more instructors according to the poll..

To grow the sport of HG/PG, would you enjoy double or tripple the airtraffic at POM on a regular basis? Surely not.
[quote="AIRTHUG If you're near a hang gliding hot-spot, [/quote]

That's it. SW Tx. is not a HG activity hot-spot. Won't you agree it is a potential hot spot, there's enough evidence to substantuate that.

Along with overall growth that will increase use of established sites/airparks, please think about growing the sport in the areas of the US that have potential and less pilot population. IMO, that will help the HG/PG industry most, from instructors to mfg..

If you know an instructor who likes red meat, is not scared of stickers and has that Pioneering spirit , send him my way. It will not hurt my feelings.. We'll make SW Tx happen. :mosh:

Preflight, Hangcheck,
Sam
SW Texas Hang Gliders
Attachments
IMG_6296_11[1].JPG
IMG_6296_11[1].JPG (68.48 KiB) Viewed 8002 times
User avatar
By hgflyer
#235131
TomGalvin wrote:Between Groupon, Zozi and related sites, many instructors are being swamped this season. I predict that the used single surface market will be tighter this year than ever.
This groupon, living social, truebates thingy....Is the best thing since sliced bread!

Like Ryan, I'm making sure I have all systems in place and ready to go. Before I submit my feature.

Let's have fun everyone! Let's teach all of these newbies coming in...Safely and Smartly!
User avatar
By larswet
#235145
Educate the rest of the population so that prospects don't have to jump over a huge moat of ignorance to get to us. Start small and young and work your way up.
:)Image
Attachments
DSC03286.JPG
DSC03286.JPG (321.23 KiB) Viewed 1173 times
User avatar
By GoIllini
#235990
It seems like Groupon has been working wonders. Where I'm training in NY, our instructor put up a Groupon offer for weekday hang gliding instruction- he got 500 sales in less than 24 hours.

I'm also kinda wondering if there's potential for a reality TV show. Just throwing it out there...
User avatar
By SeeMarkFly
#236029
GoIllini wrote:I'm also kinda wondering if there's potential for a reality TV show.
Man, All Davis wants to do is fly, fly, fly. He won't wash his dirty dishes and he keeps blocking my car in the driveway.
Do I have to wipe everybody's ass around here?
Pisses me off.
User avatar
By zamuro
#236069
When you heard that for many people getting to the H2 or H3 level takes many years (common on the east coast) you know that there is a problem right there. Not many people endure such a looong learning curve regardless if they think is dangerous or not.

Actually , a perception that HG is dangerous helps a little bit at the beginning . It makes you think that you are somehow cooler.
User avatar
By axo
#236072
deeprecon1 wrote:What do you believe will help grown the sport ...
I think you can use any of the options in the poll and thousand more, but the problem
is not the "medium" to bring more people into the sport but the people themselves.

People is either too busy following what society and the system dictates, buying
Ipads and staying at home eating and consuming the terrorism threat BS among
many other things.

I have tried so many times to talk people i saw in person into the sport. But as much
amazed as they can be by the idea, there is a line to cross that only those who are
born and meant to, will cross it.

Either add a flying ball to follow in the air so more people will join in (look at how
many millions in the world are so attracted to some kind of sport involving running
behind a ball), or get used to the idea that this sport is seen cool from the outside
but not worth the try as we think it is.

[Medieval Armour Suit Mode = ON] :lol:
User avatar
By Hangskier
#236082
I think the poll actually could be correct (better access to instructors). A previous poll was how far do you travel to HG; and I believe the most common was 2 hrs. I think a 2 hr travel is a barrier which would that not also be better access to instructors. I bet there are many sports that someone only has to travel less than 30 min to enjoy. And for HG to travel 2 hrs for training when HG takes more hrs to master than other sports (reality or perceived) is too much for majority. We live in a get it now fast pace society.

There are always people that will try a sport or enter a sport and not stay very long. Hell, I know H4's that HG for many years and no long fly. But, if the opportunity to fly is close to people, say 30 min, It would increase the number of people that are exposed and then increase the number that continue.

I also think a barrier is most schools in a tourist area make more money on joy rides and therefore don't have the time or increase the cost for training or don't bother pushing continuing with training or drag out training in order to increase profit.

If this sounds negative it’s because I’ve had a bad experience with an instructor.

I will be flying at another site and plan to get my instr.
User avatar
By Spitfire
#236113
Riddle me this...

At my school there is NO problem with visibility. Hundreds of people run or bike past us flying the sand dunes in Dockweiler Beach in LA and always stop to watch and ask questions. Recently they did a sell-out Groupon for some training hill flights. When I spoke to my instructor this Sunday he said that NOT ONE had yet converted into more lessons.

In general we have a lot of interest from people in taking lessons. Then the drop off rate goes up sharply. Very few make it to their H2. And then apparently there's a steep drop off to H3.

One theory I have is that flying off a 20 foot sand dune then lugging your glider back is just no fun (despite how it looks to a spectator). After a few lessons, people think that's what flying is about (that and lots of ground handling) and just give up.

It just frustrates me as I wish there were so many more people using our great instructors in LA.
User avatar
By TomGalvin
#236147
Spitfire wrote:Recently they did a sell-out Groupon for some training hill flights. When I spoke to my instructor this Sunday he said that NOT ONE had yet converted into more lessons.
Very different experience in New York. I think the key is community exposure early on. The training hill in Ellenville is right next to the LZ. Long time pilots are mixing it up with day trippers all the time. Flying tall tales at a BBQ after a day on the training hill is seductive and infectious.