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#402379
My last of 5 flights from last week was >62km of a 99km race task against a far superior pilot on an RX 3.0. Honestly, had I been feeling better I could have completed the task but bonked out due to cold weather and lingering L.A. crud. I'm working on a detailed review for the magazine so I won't say very much but you can see the glider in action in a variety of conditions and situations here. I think WW will announce the release of the 135 and 155 any week now.
I'll say this much about it--I want one! :thumbsup:
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2018-02-14 Task Race S3 155.igc.jpg
2018-02-14 Task Race S3 155.igc.jpg (3.11 MiB) Viewed 3524 times
#402391
What are the main differences between the Sport2 and the Sport3? Where do the improvements lie? (I know that the short-pull VG of the Sport 2 has been made easier, but this may be a disadvantage for power fliers because now there will be much more VG cord trailing out the back than before...)
#402392
The Sport2 came out in 2004 (14 years ago!), so it's nice to see WW prototyping. Jonathan - I'm sure you will go into detail in your article, some questions to consider:

1) It looks like you flew a dacron leading edge/top, and mylar ODL06 bottom. That's a strange sail material combo, what's the logic?
2) The sport2C has ODL04(bottom)/ODL06(top/LE) and some carbon goodies - will there be a similar Sport3C option?
3) The T2C winglets are OK (I think the lightest on the market), but flimsy. Will the winglets for the Sport 2 be the same? More importantly, does WW or anyone have actual data that shows the tips reduce stall speed or have some advantage. It seems overkill for an entry-level glider.
4) Light weight on the glider is good, but light weight at the wing tips is best. Does the glider have aluminum all the way on the leading edge, any carbon-outer / etc tip weight reduction?
5) I think WW once did double-tows to fly gliders side by side at different speeds, swapping pilots to check performance advantages. It would be cool to hear WW did this to see if the Sport3 sail cut does indeed make a polar curve improvement over the Sport2, or if it is just a new model (like the dial that goes to 11). I'm sure pilots will be interested in who does the sail design, and how they know it is better.
6) What is in the forward leading edge (ex. mylar backing, carbon insert option, etc).
7) Does it have a keel kick-stand? It looked like the 155 tips touch the ground. Some pilots build their own stand.

Thanks ... looking forward to your write-up. Magazine articles seem watered down and late, so feel free to address the questions here :)
#402393
Odakyu-sen wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:22 pm
What are the main differences between the Sport2 and the Sport3? Where do the improvements lie? (I know that the short-pull VG of the Sport 2 has been made easier, but this may be a disadvantage for power fliers because now there will be much more VG cord trailing out the back than before...)
Enclosed and lowered sprogs. Much larger double-surface. Larger VG range. Some hardware improvements. Better handling and glide performance. I like it although I flew my 2010 Sport 2 34 miles in sub-freezing conditions today.
#402394
GerryP wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:26 am
The Sport2 came out in 2004 (14 years ago!), so it's nice to see WW prototyping. Jonathan - I'm sure you will go into detail in your article, some questions to consider:

1) It looks like you flew a dacron leading edge/top, and mylar ODL06 bottom. That's a strange sail material combo, what's the logic?
2) The sport2C has ODL04(bottom)/ODL06(top/LE) and some carbon goodies - will there be a similar Sport3C option?
3) The T2C winglets are OK (I think the lightest on the market), but flimsy. Will the winglets for the Sport 2 be the same? More importantly, does WW or anyone have actual data that shows the tips reduce stall speed or have some advantage. It seems overkill for an entry-level glider.
4) Light weight on the glider is good, but light weight at the wing tips is best. Does the glider have aluminum all the way on the leading edge, any carbon-outer / etc tip weight reduction?
5) I think WW once did double-tows to fly gliders side by side at different speeds, swapping pilots to check performance advantages. It would be cool to hear WW did this to see if the Sport3 sail cut does indeed make a polar curve improvement over the Sport2, or if it is just a new model (like the dial that goes to 11). I'm sure pilots will be interested in who does the sail design, and how they know it is better.
6) What is in the forward leading edge (ex. mylar backing, carbon insert option, etc).
7) Does it have a keel kick-stand? It looked like the 155 tips touch the ground. Some pilots build their own stand.

Thanks ... looking forward to your write-up. Magazine articles seem watered down and late, so feel free to address the questions here :)
Excellent set of questions! I will address these in my draft of the article and hopefully have time for WW to fact check everything.
#402397
Vinicius wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:28 am
Is there any chance of a shortpack option like the Falcon? :drool:
That's a fair question. My guess is that it would be a huge PITA to short pack and reassemble it without a great deal of modification to the existing hardware. One can always ask WW to build the glider with sleeved crossbar and inner leading edge and just use tools and existing hardware to accomplish this. PITA be damned.
Maybe better to buy a Falcon 4 short-pack version for those road trips or perhaps <ahem> become bi-wingual?
#402400
GerryP wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:26 am
...1) It looks like you flew a dacron leading edge/top, and mylar ODL06 bottom. That's a strange sail material combo, what's the logic?
There is no Technora on the Sport 3. The lower surface is UVP2LXB - polyester fibers but with thinner Mylar for more bias stretch. The result is better handling than a 4oz Dacron lower surface and a lighter weight sail.
2) The sport2C has ODL04(bottom)/ODL06(top/LE) and some carbon goodies - will there be a similar Sport3C option?

I am not aware of any carbon on the Sport 2C unless it's ordered with a carbon speedbar. UVODL04/06 are Technora fiber laminates and are not typically used on the Sport 2C which uses UVPXB05 top/UVP2LXB bottom. You could upgrade to Technora fabric if you want to but I can't say whether or not you'd prefer the handling.
3) The T2C winglets are OK (I think the lightest on the market), but flimsy. Will the winglets for the Sport 2 be the same? More importantly, does WW or anyone have actual data that shows the tips reduce stall speed or have some advantage. It seems overkill for an entry-level glider.
I make my own raked tips (not winglets) for my T2C's and my Sport 2. I build these from 2mm Coroplast and ER5356 aluminum welding wire. They are durable and work really well. I have measured reduced minimum handling speeds and minimum effective turn radius on my gliders with these. I am aware of complaints about the factory T2C raked tips which need to be installed carefully just as the Icaro raked tips and every other after-market raked tips I have seen needs to be. The new Icaro raked tips fold along the vertex and can be stored inside the bagged glider. The factory prototype raked tips on the Sport 3 were unique. They looked and flew very promising. I'll say more in the article.
4) Light weight on the glider is good, but light weight at the wing tips is best. Does the glider have aluminum all the way on the leading edge, any carbon-outer / etc tip weight reduction?
Have you read the Sport 2 manual and seen what the outboard leading edges are made of? Carbon probably will not reduce the already feather-light tips. Tip inertia could be reduced by decertifying the glider and making your own carbon sprogs and replacing SS hardware and SS cable with Vectran. Before doing this, you could always fly the glider in benign conditions with the sprogs completely removed and add some 100# 0.016" spectra fishing line to the transverse batten (in case you're worried about tuck) then go fly it and see. No, I'm not kidding. You could also build a feather-light minimal mass, temporary sprog just to test the glider on a smooth day and see whether removing that weight really does enough to justify the expense of doing a more permanent low-mass sprog.
5) I think WW once did double-tows to fly gliders side by side at different speeds, swapping pilots to check performance advantages. It would be cool to hear WW did this to see if the Sport3 sail cut does indeed make a polar curve improvement over the Sport2, or if it is just a new model (like the dial that goes to 11). I'm sure pilots will be interested in who does the sail design, and how they know it is better.
I am not aware of any side-by-side glide testing of the S3. In the Cloudbase Mayhem podcast episode with Dustin Martin he talks about the side-by-side testing that you mention but with the T2C. The best testing I know is to fly head-to-head in real-world soaring conditions then regroup in the air after separating and do it again. See who turns better, climbs better and glides better most often then swap gliders and do it again. Calm air counts for final glide to goal at the end of the day but that's a small part of overall picture.

Luckily (or sadly) I fly similar lines and conditions over and over again (ad nauseum) and have 289 hours on various Sport 2 155 incarnations including a Sport 2C 155 prototype with a very stiff sail. That S2C prototype performed the best of the S2's but not as well as the S3 and it had really stiff handling which made no-so fun to fly and resulted in missed turns. Where I fly, if you miss a turn you may get the pinch and the other guy(s) specs out while you grovel and pray for a reprieve.

6) What is in the forward leading edge (ex. mylar backing, carbon insert option, etc).
AFAIK it's 14mil Mylar but you could order 10mil Mylar to save some weight at the possible expense of glide. I'll talk about the glides I was getting in the article (assuming I remember everything I want to mention).

7) Does it have a keel kick-stand? It looked like the 155 tips touch the ground. Some pilots build their own stand.
The prototype had the same keel stinger as the S2. On my 2010 S2 which has raked tips that extend really far aft, I made a new stinger that's 9" longer than the old style and installed a captive bungee. I replaced the split ring on the 3/16" clevis pin with the spiral split ring that's used on the Falcon corner bracket thumb wheels. I also waxed the outside and inside of the stinger and keel receptacle in order to prevent corrosion and galling of the metal to metal contact. It works like a champ. This is an issue that I suggest pilots pester WW about. This was a very easy modification and I wish it were a stock feature. Quick Stands are very handy but why rely on an external accessory when it can be an integral part of the glider. Bling is lovely but let's be practical.
Thanks ... looking forward to your write-up. Magazine articles seem watered down and late, so feel free to address the questions here :)
I'll give it my best shot!
#402402
Jonathan - great answers, thanks for correcting me on the sail cloth type. Your comment about S3 handling is encouraging, and I'm intrigued by the new tip design (I need a secret spy photo). Appreciate you taking the time to do the write-up and article - looking forward to it!
#403523
Great writeup Jonathan. I've had a chance to see and fly with a few production S3's. Wills Wing knocked the design out of the park and totally met their design objective of an easy intermediate wing that transforms into a high performance wing with the pull of a string.

I'm expecting to see some footage of you on your new S3 any day now.



Dan
#403524
Lucky_Chevy wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 12:50 pm
Great writeup Jonathan. I've had a chance to see and fly with a few production S3's. Wills Wing knocked the design out of the park and totally met their design objective of an easy intermediate wing that transforms into a high performance wing with the pull of a string.

I'm expecting to see some footage of you on your new S3 any day now....
Thanks Dan,
It looks like plenty of other pilots have been killing it with the S3 135 and 155. It's time to let others represent.
Cheers,
Jonathan

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