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By Andrew
#399565
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM6YWY_SC1E

I posted this to remind pilots that when something looks wrong during a preflight, it just might be wrong.
I did not catch the real problem until a week later on the next flight.
I am not proud that I misdiagnosed the problem at first.

Pilot comments start about half way into video, along with a photo of the suspected cause.
By Seahawk
#399566
Andrew wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:07 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM6YWY_SC1E

I posted this to remind pilots that when something looks wrong during a preflight, it just might be wrong.
I did not catch the real problem until a week later on the next flight.
I am not proud that I misdiagnosed the problem at first.

Pilot comments start about half way into video, along with a photo of the suspected cause.

Did you read the pre-flight section of the Falcon 3 manual where it says "Check that the sail is not
caught on the crossbar end, nor on the safety ring, nor on any of the hardware" Andrew?
User avatar
By Andrew
#399567
Perhaps i did, many years ago.

You take the chance to step up to make an example of your mistake for some good, and someone usually steps up and makes you feel like you shouldn't have.
By blindrodie
#399568
Video marked "private"! Not too useful here...

8)
User avatar
By NMERider
#399570
I watched the video last night. I posted some constructive information about other things that can happen to a Falcon 3 that can also induce a turn. If rude comments get posted just delete them and block the YouTube user. It only takes less than a minute. Otherwise change the video settings so that comments cannot be posted. Problem solved.

In case anyone is still wondering what caused the scary launch: The large hole in the middle-bottom of the right leading edge of a F3-195 got caught over the end of the crossbar and somehow put a turn into the glider. There was evidence something was wrong with the glider during assembly when the right-hand batten that inserts near the crossbar did not go in the same way as the opposite batten. The left-hand tip batten string was loose while the right-hand was so tight it was difficult to install.

The OP recognizes this as a pre-flight failure. It's good for other F3-195 owners and any other SS glider owners to be aware of this issue with the through-hole in the LE pocket snagging on the tip of the crossbar. It has happened to me but was remedied during assembly. The Falcon manual discusses items to check for during assembly and pre-flight that can result in a glider that doesn't fly right. Pilots please read and remember your manuals regarding assembly/inspection.
User avatar
By DMarley
#399577
Andrew.... don't let chuckleheads like seahawk (he/she just recently joined the forum on June 18 2017!) make you feel ashamed of posting your little misfortune. This person is probably not a pilot, and should not have posted a ridiculously lame response.
I would like to see what happened so that I might be able to avoid what happened to you. If we as pilots do not continue to communicate problems, situations, conditions, misfortunes, and otherwise glanced-over checks to other pilots, would we not feel guilty when those similar events needlessly unfold for another pilot? I know I would feel terrible.
Anyway, this Capt'n Obvious seahawk chucklehead should be called out for being a bit callous. But, many of us all have been there, done that, too. I'm guessing seahawk just had a need to impress us all with his/her overwhelming mountain of experience. Even though she/he just recently joined the forum.... or perhaps just changed handle to keep us guessing. Whatever.
Andrew, I hope that you will repost your vid.
Thanks
Doug
By Seahawk
#399579
Andrew wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:34 am Perhaps i did, many years ago.

You take the chance to step up to make an example of your mistake for some good, and someone usually steps up and makes you feel like you shouldn't have.

No harm in giving your manual a re-read then. Wills Wing does a good job on their manuals.
User avatar
By Andrew
#399581
Video has been made available.

Seahawk makes a good point, yes, the manual covers this issue.
If he/she did not then someone else would have.

But how many of us make it a point to re-read the manual (or even the preflight recommendations) every season or two so it sticks in your head?.
If you are like me, and have been flying on and off since the early eighties, flying falcons since the late 90's... you might have read the manual once, but you tend to fall into a groove with the preflight. And one day one of those things that you NEVER see during a setup happens, and perhaps you do not know why...

Regardless of whether it is in the manual or not, you should take notice and not brush it off as lightly as I did.

Andrew
By Seahawk
#399582
DMarley wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:46 pm Andrew.... don't let chuckleheads like seahawk (he/she just recently joined the forum on June 18 2017!) make you feel ashamed of posting your little misfortune. This person is probably not a pilot, and should not have posted a ridiculously lame response.
I would like to see what happened so that I might be able to avoid what happened to you. If we as pilots do not continue to communicate problems, situations, conditions, misfortunes, and otherwise glanced-over checks to other pilots, would we not feel guilty when those similar events needlessly unfold for another pilot? I know I would feel terrible.
Anyway, this Capt'n Obvious seahawk chucklehead should be called out for being a bit callous. But, many of us all have been there, done that, too. I'm guessing seahawk just had a need to impress us all with his/her overwhelming mountain of experience. Even though she/he just recently joined the forum.... or perhaps just changed handle to keep us guessing. Whatever.
Andrew, I hope that you will repost your vid.
Thanks
Doug

I've never seen the word "chucklehead" before, so I did a google search and found it as - "a stupid person". I don't consider myself to be a stupid person, but then again I've never won a Nobel or Pulitzer...

Anyway, a Seagull Seahawk was my first glider so that is why I picked that name.
User avatar
By Love2Glide
#399589
Thanks for posting this. I've been flying for 13 years now and this is an assembly error I have not seen before on a preflight. I will keep a lookout for this.

For me this would be a manual issue and a training issue. As an example, when I trained, a reflex wire stuck under a batten was a common assembly error and it was stressed by most instructors as something to look for. I've caught that a few times on preflight. I don't believe that the sail stuck in crossbar error was/is commonly taught probably because it doesn't happen that often. Many new pilots might not even realize its a problem if they were staring right at it. I may or may not have caught that!

The F3 manual says "Check that the sail is not caught on the crossbar end, nor on the safety ring, nor on any of the hardware". A picture of the error and a note stressing that it could cause uncommanded roll would be good.

It doesn't seem to be a problem that happens on Falcon 2 gliders like mine...so If I went and got a F3 or F4 I probably would not have considered it and would not be specifically looking for the issue. Again thanks for posting.
By Seahawk
#399600
I'd comment on the above but what's the point?

Anyway, I'm done with this forum so Au Revoir folks.
User avatar
By DMarley
#399601
Seahawk wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:17 pm I'd comment on the above but what's the point?

Anyway, I'm done with this forum so Au Revoir folks.
Wow Seahawk. Real sensitive aren't we? You must be much too holy and perfect for us imperfect sinners anyway.
You criticize a fellow pilot's attempt at warning other pilots, then you become hurt that someone would call you on your ill manners. Then you throw in your towel because another pilot voices some concerns? How sensitive and hurt can a pilot become?!? Harden up, bucko.
User avatar
By DMarley
#399602
Andrew,
Thanks for allowing us to view your vid. This will stick in my head from now on, though I've never seen this problem and have always checked the nylon nut cap and top and bottom side-wire attachments at the crossbar-leading edge junction.
Most definitely a life saving procedure to preflight your glider with extreme prejudice and in the absence of anyone who talks while you are concentrating, and with a manual in hand if not intimately familiar with the glider. Something like this could become easily overlooked if attention to detail is reduced by a wufo or another pilot blabbing away.... like what happened this weekend to me. Aaahhh! I wanted to tell him to leave me alone for a few minutes. I really should have. Thankfully, I had the presence of mind to redo my preflight on the glider and harness after the guy sauntered off in search of more talkative marks.
User avatar
By DMarley
#399606
Seahawk,
I gotta apologize to you for referring to you as a chucklehead. I wasn't trying to infer that you are a 'stupid person,' just that you were not very mannerly in your response to Andrew's warning post. The word 'chucklehead' just popped into my head and it seemed about right at the time. It just sounded like a good description of someone with ill manners. And there ya go. We all could be considered something like that at one time or another. Many of us, anyway.
User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#399618
Seahawk wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:44 am Did you read the pre-flight section of the Falcon 3 manual where it says "Check that the sail is not
caught on the crossbar end, nor on the safety ring, nor on any of the hardware" Andrew?
Yo guys (and girls)... hold up here. Look again at what Seahawk said. It is probably fair to say that, even though it is worded as a question, it's likely rhetorical. I could see how the discovery that this exact issue was cautioned in the owners manual of this glider could make the OP feel a bit stupid. And it's admirable for a bunch of you to jump up in defense of the OP. But if you look at what Seahawk said... he/she merely pointed out this exact thing is in the manual. And, rather than point it out, like well duh it says right here to watch out for this, they worded it as a question.

If the OP felt stupid after reading that this thing was specifically mentioned in the manual... that emotion was triggered from within. If the people that posted following Seahawk felt they needed to defend the OP, because Seahawk's post might make them feel stupid. Again, that came from within each of you... or perhaps YOU thought it made the OP look stupid, and you felt bad.

Better to look stupid than DEAD, eh? The OP started this thread to caution pilots about this specific thing he was previously aware of. A thing that very nearly crashed him. It seems now the lesson to be learned is to READ THE MANUAL. In all of the defense of the OP, people were noting how he posted to help fellow pilots be safer. I don't see how Seahawk's post is any different.

Lesson is, read the manual, and read what people post- without reading into what they post :goodidea:
User avatar
By Baitrunner
#399620
Love2Glide wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:47 am
It doesn't seem to be a problem that happens on Falcon 2 gliders like mine...so If I went and got a F3 or F4 I probably would not have considered it and would not be specifically looking for the issue. Again thanks for posting.
I was training at LMFP this February - first time there. The instructors stressed this important pre-flight check on their training F2's as surprisingly enough it happens quite frequently after the sail has stretched a bit. I'm a newbie here so take this next statement with a grain of salt but I think it may have something to do with the setup procedure i.e. connecting the nose wire first before standing the glider up and spreading out the wings (this is when it gets snagged). Just my .02 :)
By FredK
#399621
Andrew wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:07 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM6YWY_SC1E

I posted this to remind pilots that when something looks wrong during a preflight, it just might be wrong.
I did not catch the real problem until a week later on the next flight.
I am not proud that I misdiagnosed the problem at first.

Pilot comments start about half way into video, along with a photo of the suspected cause.
Good that you caught the pre-flight problem. But that's not what caused the bad launch. The launch problem was a nose too high, lack of a strong run, popping the nose and pushing out when you got close to the ground. Maybe a cross-wind component to get the left wing high as you began your rub - but still pilot error.

Don't count on fixing the glider to fix your next launch.
User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#399623
+1 Thank you Fred for being the one to say it first! I've been trying to not always be "that guy"... so, thank YOU for being that guy :rofl:

Fred is right on IMHO...
User avatar
By Andrew
#399683
Hey Seahawk,
Don't go. Stick around.

Often what is written in a message can be read the wrong way.
You probably had the best intentions when you replied to my posting.
I have pretty thin skin, it made me feel rather foolish, my reply and actions were normal for how i felt but there were those who reminded me that our misfortunes are good examples for others and that I should not have such a thin skin.

Sometimes we write things off the top of our heads and do not think about how it comes off sounding or how it can be interpreted after we hit the send button.

You made a good point. No need to be sorry about it.

And try just like I am trying to do.., try to have a thicker skin.
I am sure we all mean well.

Andrew
By bickford frederick
#399696
Post flight inspection is just as important as pre flight inspection.

Personally, I've been guilty of rushing both in the past. Nowadays I don't. I found through observing more seasoned pilots and my own trials and errors that emphasis on efficiency and thoroughness before and after flight saves time in the long run also making for a better day rather than trying to hurry to get in the air or hurry to the next whatever.

A scientific approach to assembly and diss assembly allows accumulating knowledge of the aircraft and ones self awareness thereby making a better pilot having better flights.