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By get high
#203627
Awesome! Thanks for posting. I've only been able to find a few videos of people doing this, and this is probably the best one I've seen. I think it's going to inspire me to start practicing at a local hill. I think having these down would make me a safer pilot and I might start looking at landing options differently.
User avatar
By Spark
#203630
The pilot sure made that look easy.

Nice videos :thumbsup:
User avatar
By relate2
#203633
That is Scott Barrett who is an awesome pilot. I first met him years ago on a visit to Newcastle when he blew me away landing crosswind in 20-25 knots winds as if he was just stepping off the kerb.

Go to 3:48 seconds in this video and watch Scott showing how easy it is. :drool: :drool:

[youtube]
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User avatar
By fakeDecoy
#203636
I'd love to try to practice that. There was some video a year or two ago of a guy doing crosswind crosshill no steppers on a small coastal hill that looked very similar.
User avatar
By remmoore
#203637
I know a Full Throttle guy who did them all the time at Diablo. 15-20 MPH tailwind, diving right at the sh!thouse, scaring the heck out of the whuffos and any pilots who didn't know him, then gracefully planting it on the side of the mountain. I expect he'll be doing them again someday.

I can do them, but don't have the nerve to try it with that much tailwind. I know in theory they should be actually easier, with a nice compression zone against the steep hillside, but I lack the guts to dive that fast at the mountainside.

RM
User avatar
By hiflioz
#203644
remmoore wrote:I.

I can do them, but don't have the nerve to try it with that much tailwind. I know in theory they should be actually easier, with a nice compression zone against the steep hillside, but I lack the guts to dive that fast at the mountainside.

RM
I know how you feel and then some, RM!

I've practised doing crosswind and cross-headwind uphill landings, but the few times I practised downwind and cross-downwind fly-on-the-wall landings (in maybe 10 kts) they were less pretty. Nothing broken or bruised, but could easily have gone the other way.

Every pilot is different and *for me*, and me alone, I decided that although I'm a vocal advocate of practice, practice, practice, the risks of practising these particular full-on tailwind FOW landings outweighed the benefits. My timing and judgment simply aren't good enough and the consequences of getting it wrong are severe. I think perhaps you have to have a bit of instinctive natural talent and touch to pull these off like we've seen in the vids, a touch that I lack. Cross-headwind and crosswind ones I find significantly more forgiving, with lower groundspeeds and more time to react.

Should ever I be placed in an emergency downwind uphill landing situation again (I've pulled off a couple), then hopefully the crosswind ones will have helped, but with my skill level there's little point in practising a technique where the practice is likely to hurt me more than the potential accident it's trying to prevent!

YMMV!
:) :)
User avatar
By INIT4FUNkssake
#203696
Nothing inspiring there.
For starters, he's in a fun.
Its Dixon Park in Newcastle. Its blowing 20, maybe a bit more
The wind is very east. He's landing in semi crossed, horizontal wind. Its off to his right as he comes in, very easy to do, just looks dramatic, hardly any lift down low there. Different story if it was square on, or have a little S east in it. Or for that matter in a topless. I'll get a stack this summer of the master's, AP & Wayno, Showing just how it's done in a high performance wing. Some stuff of the same place below in more difficult conditions.



Landings at end.



User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#203701
Now do it in no wind on a hot summer day at 5,000 ft msl... on a T2C :wink:

[youtube]
[/youtube]

Jeff O'Brien is the s---. 'Nuff said.
User avatar
By INIT4FUNkssake
#203705
:thumbsup:
Very doable and done, in many different places & by many other pilots.
Last edited by INIT4FUNkssake on Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By johnw
#203721
I've never done a downwind fly on the wall, but I remember doing a crosswind FOW in my early solo days when I was too low to turn into wind and had a steep hill in front of me. I got away with it - more by luck than good judgement - and the experience of flying fast into a steep hillside was something I would have preferred to learn in less demanding circumstances

So - I'm thinking about how to practice FOW and earlier comments about the dangers of hurting yourself while trying to perfect the technique.

I think the answer is to take it in a series of small steps, only moving on to the next step when you've mastered the previous step. Now I have no idea what those steps should be but I'll risk a couple of steps before any of the experts want to give their ideas:
1 Perfect at landing on the flat in nil wind
2 Ability to fly a fast final with steep approach to the roundout - need to develop this step progressively or you'll hurt yourself badly
3 What next? Crosswind? Slope landing?

BTW - there's a few other advanced techniques that might be better learnt as a series of steps - wingovers, for example. Again, I have no idea what those set of small steps should be. Any takers on that?
User avatar
By remmoore
#203726
johnw wrote: 1 Perfect at landing on the flat in nil wind
2 Ability to fly a fast final with steep approach to the roundout - need to develop this step progressively or you'll hurt yourself badly
3 What next? Crosswind? Slope landing?
OK, I'm not claiming to be a FOTL expert, but we do plenty of hillside landings at Diablo. Hillside landings (I'm not talking about a gentle uphill) should be a skill every pilot has in their arsenal.

Frankly, hillside landings are easier that flat slope nil wind landings - even the steeper ones. I don't thinks you need to be a "perfect" flat slope lander to work on hillside landings. It may not be a novice skill to work on, but you don't have to be a H4 for example.

Starting out with a somewhat gentle slope is best - but not too gentle. Learning to come in with good speed is important, although it doesn't take blazing speed to do most uphills. It's really about recognizing that the flare window is going to open much faster than normal, and being able to feel your glider telling you it's time to flare despite any groundpeed signals. On steeper hillsides, the flare may happen just as you get close to the ground - virtually no ground effect.

One of the biggest pitfalls to avoid on hillside landings is the temptation to fly into the wind, but cross-slope. Don't do it. Many times, the prevaiing breeze (even a gentle one) will wrap around a hillside. A new-to-hillsides pilot will succumb to earlier instincts and try to land into the wind - bad idea. A decent hillside slope will negate alot of breeze, and attemping a cross-slope landing is a recipe for disaster.

Once you've gotten the feel for gentle and moderate uphill slopes, you'll know how to estimate your approach for steeper slopes, crosswind and downwind landings. It's actually pretty easy to learn this skill; most pilots pick it up very quickly.
User avatar
By INIT4FUNkssake
#203728
OK, I'm not claiming to be a FOTL expert, but we do plenty of hillside landings at Diablo. Hillside landings (I'm not talking about a gentle uphill) should be a skill every pilot has in their arsenal.

Frankly, hillside landings are easier that flat slope nil wind landings - even the steeper ones. I don't thinks you need to be a "perfect" flat slope lander to work on hillside landings. It may not be a novice skill to work on, but you don't have to be a H4 for example.

Starting out with a somewhat gentle slope is best - but not too gentle. Learning to come in with good speed is important, although it doesn't take blazing speed to do most uphills. It's really about recognizing that the flare window is going to open much faster than normal, and being able to feel your glider telling you it's time to flare despite any groundpeed signals. On steeper hillsides, the flare may happen just as you get close to the ground - virtually no ground effect.

One of the biggest pitfalls to avoid on hillside landings is the temptation to fly into the wind, but cross-slope. Don't do it. Many times, the prevaiing breeze (even a gentle one) will wrap around a hillside. A new-to-hillsides pilot will succumb to earlier instincts and try to land into the wind - bad idea. A decent hillside slope will negate alot of breeze, and attemping a cross-slope landing is a recipe for disaster.

Once you've gotten the feel for gentle and moderate uphill slopes, you'll know how to estimate your approach for steeper slopes, crosswind and downwind landings. It's actually pretty easy to learn this skill; most pilots pick it up very quickly.[/quote]


:ditto: :thumbsup:
User avatar
By danmoser
#203731
Successful downwind-upslope landings are a bird-like skill that with NO standardized instructional method that I am aware of.
It could be an important survival skill.
I've done it once.. not on purpose, but in an emergency landing situation.. and it worked.. no broken bones or aluminum.
Perhaps I was lucky.
Learning that skill seems like an important tool for pilot survival in emergency situations.
Sound off, all you master instructors... How do we teach this critical skill to pilots without undo risk??
User avatar
By gasdive
#203803
Learning to FOW.... I should say that I haven't done any FOW since my return to flight, mainly because the sites I'm flying don't lend themselves to it. Come to think of it I haven't done any toplanding at all... Hard to land a tree slot launch on top.

Anyway, delving back in time.... Follow me back, back, back into the deepest darkest recesses of my mind. No not there, for god sake! Over here...

So here I am, hanging out on the hill. I'm 22 years old and I'm totally in awe of all the pilots around me. The lift is coming and going in waves. It might be flyable for 5 or 6 minutes, then it goes dead again. I'm watching while all the other pilots are doing FOW landings so they're getting flights in the light conditions. Well a couple of pilots are doing sled rides but they have to pack up, hitch to the top, drive down... well you get the idea. I don't want to end up on the beach.

So I quiz my instructor, he explains how it's done and a couple of other pilots demonsrate, so I have a clear idea of what's involved.

Hang check, walk over to the launch, wait for some lift, solid run and I'm away. Scratch scratch scratch. I get about 20 ft above launch, then it starts to fade. Ok, I'm getting flushed, time to put it back on top. Head out to sea, turn right. Fly the base staring at the landing point, pull on some speed, roll it straight down wind about 50 ft below the hill. I'm now completely committed, one way or the other I'm landing in the next 10 seconds. Pull right in and dive it straight at a point about 100 ft down from the brow of the hill. Ohhh it looks like I'm flying straight down at the ground. Heart is going like mad. Glider is going *fast*. As I get close to the ground I round out as instructed and fly along about 3 or 4 ft above the surface dead downwind straight up the hill. Speed bleeds off very quickly and within a few seconds I hear the speed that means flare! So I do and it's just like a normal landing except that I keep the nose up to stop it blowing over.

It's 25 years later. I can't remember the names of the people who sit beside me at work but I can see every second of that flight like it was happening now.

God I love this sport!

=:)
User avatar
By OSCAR
#203880
Turning at the mountain takes some getting used to but that's how it goes dive it in and fly up the hill it's a good trick to have in the bag and a hell of a lot of fun on a good day you can get a lot of flights in as well . :thumbsup: [youtube]
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User avatar
By jointstrike
#203911
This is an amazing way to land. No speed at the end. Increadible precision. Man has truly learned to become like a bird.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
User avatar
By jointstrike
#203916
So impressed I checked youtube and found another. This must take years to perfect. Big hairy ones IMO.
[youtube]
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User avatar
By danmoser
#203964
Thanks, OB..

It makes sense to practice on somewhat steep slopes in light winds.. the opposite from normal flight training where you start shallow...

...also makes sense that the much quicker speed bleed off require rapid basetube-to-downtube transitions.. a good habit to have anyway!
:thumbsup:

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