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It's tough to measure the true performance of a wing given the number of variables. I would say the Bautek Fizz is fairly close to the top of the glide ratio list. I've seen a Fizz and a lightspeed with good pilots mountain launch into still conditions and both got a 14:1 glide and landing in the same field.
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By entelin
TjW wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:34 pm
I think even king-posted high performance gliders are to the point where the cleanliness of the harness is going to have a relatively large effect on max L/D.
In 2017 I was flying my U2 145 with a tracer pod and often noticed inferior glide even compared to Sport 2's with racing harnesses. In 2018 I flew with a Tenax 4 on the same glider and had an equal or better glide compared to all other gliders I competed against in the sport class, I never had the same issue, not even once. That said the Tenax 4 is heavier than the tracer as well, so it put my wing loading to the upper middle of the range, instead of middle. Still though previously it was significantly worse than now, I'd have lines vibrating and everything back there previously, pulling in just caused me to sink, where now I get some additional flat speed.

I flew next to a Fizz once and it definitely seemed like it performed better than I did, I wouldn't be surprised if the MastR performed better than the U2 as well. That said, I kinda feel like if you are chasing performance then why not just get a topless so you can get more carbon options? Regardless of kingpost or not performance is going to have similar impacts on handling right? The sport 3 looks like a great balance of performance, weight, and handling. Having flown near them a lot this last year I can say that it's performance is not much less than a U2, I assume it must be less, but to what degree was not at all obvious to me. At the same time the 155 model only weighs 58lbs! I'm looking forward to flying one sometime, but I suspect the S3 has a really good balance of traits.
I recently had opportunity to measure the top speed I could get while flying a fresh U2 160 with my cocoon harness, hooking in at about 225. With VG full tight, and the bar back as far as I could get it, my 6030 said 63MPH (uncompensated). I think that is impressive. But if you're really wanting it, my T2C is moving at well over 70 (75 if I remember right) in the same situation. From there, add a racing pod, 125% VG mod, lower the sprogs...

As an aside, while flying the U2 I went on a few glides with Sport3's and did visibly better over a few miles. Of course at the end of the day in fun-flying circumstances, they were getting just as good flights as me.
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By Felix
From looking at the design, I believe the Bautez Fizz probably has best performance...never flew with one though.

On My Aeros Discus (which is a wing of 7.3 aspect ratio, same as a T2 sail) I got visibly better performance over a U2, which in turn gets a little bit of a better glide than the Sport 3. Small differences really, but over long distances they add up.

I believe most important for performance is a friendly, easy to fly glider; a stiff glider with a great glide but one that will force you away from lift when you need to get in it, will in the end give you less overall performance, with more work...

There are rumours (do not quote me on this though) of a kingposted Aeros Combat C...now that would be amazing! :thumbsup:
Hi again Felix, in my opinion, adding a kingpost and some detuning would still not turn the highest aspect ratio glider in its class into a sports glider.. What would be the point of that, except to outfly the other sport gliders and sell more cause yours is the best? This race for performance and subsequent expensive exotic materials has really not helped our cause for keeping pilots flying. I just hope sports class glider manufacturers don't lose sight of arguably our most important class and its features.. The higher the a/r, the less user friendly the glider Col. :)
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By entelin
Charlie Romeo wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:44 pm
This race for performance and subsequent expensive exotic materials
I would basically agree, we have topless gliders for that. Though exotic materials and expense I don't think are a driving factor, you can always get pretty good used gliders at much less cost, even beginner gliders new aren't that much really. What would a full carbon S3 be like? What could the weight be gotten down to? Wing momentum could be further reduced, etc.
I like where the current sports gliders are at, {not the price though}. They remind me of the sports wings in pg. They kept their a/r but clever tweaking have given them nearly the performance of their brown pants wings...Similarly, some of our sports gliders have a mod a/r but Moyes and Willwing {and others?}, with clever tweaks and wide vg range they have made as best they could their benign and friendly gliders with great performance. These are mod a/r, around 6.4 ish gliders, my own sports glider the Sting circa 2009? is a/r 5.7, there are much higher a/r sports gliders out there.... Since your span/chord ratio is the main foundation to performance, should the ever more popular sports class be more defined?...Does it really matter, not to me anyway.. 8)
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