.

.

All things hang gliding. This is the main forum. New users, introduce yourself.

Moderators: sg, mods









#405714
Umm, I didn't endorse careless flying. The point I made was that a tandem pilot has a responsibility to their passenger that supersedes their personal flying style and that must put the passenger's safety first and foremost.

[/quote]
Bullshit. You should never be careless in this sport. The routine should be the same for single-pilot as for tandem. Hooked-in, balance, all that. If you're careless 'cause you're flying alone, without a passenger, you can die, and leave a bad reputation behind. Careless pilots should just leave the sport. Not the first time I see this type of comment, "if you're by yourself, do as you wish" - do it right, always.

Keep on flying guys, cheers!
[/quote]
#405716
bigbird wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:33 pm
Umm, I didn't endorse careless flying. The point I made was that a tandem pilot has a responsibility to their passenger that supersedes their personal flying style and that must put the passenger's safety first and foremost....
I got your point and I'm sure that others did too.

A big issue with carelessness for solo pilots is that they very often leave behind a devastated family (friends, employers, employees, etc) and I personally know of several in this category and there's plethora of pilots who have personally witnessed this sad fallout. I'm sure this includes you as well. Of course this is true for any discretionary high-risk activity.
#405721
I don't think it is constructive to chalk this up to carelessness. This is a mistake that every one of us is capable of making. All it takes is one distraction at the right time in the sequence & it can happen. There has not been any commentary regarding what distraction led to this situation. The tandem passenger does not give any indication of the events leading up to the situation, & neither does the media reports. I would really like to know exactly what transpired, what thing was out of the ordinary? What pattern was flawed?

I think carelessness is a poor choice in explanation of this incident. Now if he was high & drunk & forgot to hook in his tandem student, well then we could chalk it up to carelessness. I doubt that is the case.
#405724
DAVE 858 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:13 pm
I don't think it is constructive to chalk this up to carelessness. This is a mistake that every one of us is capable of making. All it takes is one distraction at the right time in the sequence & it can happen. There has not been any commentary regarding what distraction led to this situation. The tandem passenger does not give any indication of the events leading up to the situation, & neither does the media reports. I would really like to know exactly what transpired.
He mentioned that he and his wife were both doing tandems and that she and another instructor went just ahead of him. He also mentions that he was super excited at watching her perfect launch, that next he and his pilot/instructor, climbed into their harnesses and began practicing how they would run to get liftoff and then, the rest almost became history.
#405728
Odakyu-sen wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:30 pm
Do they have tandem ratings in Switzerland? Did the pilot have one? He certainly had no contingency plan (U-turn and uphill landing). Why in the world did he keep on heading out to deeper territory?
(Yes, I know that hindsight is a wonderful thing.)
There are quite stingent ratings here in switzerland for commercial tandem pilots. You have to have a certain number of solo flights (basic pilot course, min. 150 flights and 1+ years flying experience), then you can do a course with a theoretical and practical exam to get your permit to fly tandems, but you can only fly tandems with other pilots. After that you have to complete again a certain amount of tandem flights, then another practical and theory examination, then you can offer comercial tandems. Then you have to renew the licence every three years.

And yet, such a big mistake can happen...
#405729
As Max began eluding to, Gurky (passenger) donned his harness before doing practice runs sans glider.
This incident could have been completely averted if the pilot had hooked both harnesses to the hang loops and completed proper pre-flight checks on each harness before they both entered the harnesses (Aussie method).

Does anyone here enter their harness prior to hooking in? If so, then what are the situations that preclude you from hooking your harness in first?
#405733
I wonder if many of pilots' forgetful moments can be chalked up to impatience and outside influences?
One of the older crows at one of the sites I fly can get impatient and many times attempts to hurry other pilots along by yelling "let's go, hurry up...." like he's the gruff squad sarge and we're on a time-sensitive war-time sortie. Strangely, he typically times his rant during the time that I and/or others are prepping or donning our harnesses.
I have my preparation sequence that I always adhere to and I do not allow conditions or other outside distractions to influence my pace. I am not slow nor obsessive about checking and rechecking. One thorough pre-flight of everything set-up is sufficient for me. But with other's launching and conditions looking prime, it is very tempting to hurry your preparations along at a faster pace than typically. This is the environment that sets the table for overlooked/forgotten pieces of preparation.
With Gursky's wife and pilot launching previously, and conditions appearing like it was becoming less soarable, Gursky's pilot may have felt the pressure to hurry along his preparations.
Most tales from surviving pilots who had forgot critical harness and/or craft details indicate that they were in a more rushed state-of-mind leading up to launch.
This is a great reminder for all of us. Thank God no-one was seriously injured or worse.
I wonder how many pilots and other passengers will Gursky's tale ultimately save?
#405735
Since this video began going viral (sometime early this week) among the non-flying general public, mass media, and social media, just about everyone on my friends list has forwarded, copied, or tagged me on various FB reposts of this video.
Its pretty obnoxious and its unfortunate for the state of the sport. I've declined to reply to just about every one of the above mentioned notifications... It wasn't my incident and its not my job to explain to the world anything about it, plus it would a lot of work I'm not getting paid for. But for anyone interested in this forum, this is what is running through my brain bucket as I am floored by some of the silly reactions and the 'buzz' this video has created;
- This didn't happen in the U.S. (that matters to some people, but not all, in regards to how pilots are trained and qualified to do Tandem flights)
- Free Flight, generally and statistically speaking, is safer than driving to work in the morning.
- Forgetting to clip yourself in and especially forgetting to check a passenger is a monumental mistake... but really, do we want to start qui-pro-quo in monumental oversights that humans have made doing any number of potentially dangerous sports or other activities?
- This guy was lucky, he lived with and had a non-life threatening injury. Others who perished in similar incidents were not so lucky.
- Are we going to judge the safety of an entire sport based on one viral video? If that's the case, cancel all commercial flights and future air travel plans. No? Then STFU

It would make me sad to know if potential interest in taking a tandem flight or getting into the sport has been harmed or reversed by this video for anyone who watched it... but in a twisted sort of way I think 'fine then, the LZ and launches are crowded enough as it is. If you can't take the heat stay the F out the kitchen'.

Just thinking out loud
#405745
CloudDiver wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:54 pm

- Are we going to judge the safety of an entire sport based on one viral video? If that's the case, cancel all commercial flights and future air travel plans. No? Then STFU

It would make me sad to know if potential interest in taking a tandem flight or getting into the sport has been harmed or reversed by this video for anyone who watched it... but in a twisted sort of way I think 'fine then, the LZ and launches are crowded enough as it is. If you can't take the heat stay the F out the kitchen'.

Just thinking out loud
What's with your anger?
First off, this vid will all be forgotten in a matter of hours, or perhaps days by the general public.
Second: it's a good reminder for pilots to develop check lists or mnemonic lists, or something to help them to remember each part of their gear prep prior to launch.
Third: launches are crowded? :roll:
#405747
I think this is a terrific video. I am so glad it turned out as well as it did, the alternative was too terrifying. Kudos to the passenger, and to the pilot, apart from his terrible initial error. :shock: Now probably more people have seen this video than any other about hang gliding, ever! All over the news worldwide. :ahh:

But here's the thing. Most people pretty much shudder at the thought of hang gliding anyway - about like I feel about cave diving I imagine. Some think it's cool but would never do it - sheesh, most people don't like flying in anything, let alone a hang glider. A few might try, but very few will become hang glider pilots. When i first learned to hang glide I tried to persuade all my buddies to try it. But none did. "You're a rare bird" my friends said.

I don't think this video will put anyone off hang gliding, but the good thing about it is that now probably half the people in the world, even those who never, ever, wanted to hang glide, and including those who might, now know that you MUST do a hook in check!! :)

Leo Jones
#405748
DMarley wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:55 pm
CloudDiver wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:54 pm

- Are we going to judge the safety of an entire sport based on one viral video? If that's the case, cancel all commercial flights and future air travel plans. No? Then STFU

It would make me sad to know if potential interest in taking a tandem flight or getting into the sport has been harmed or reversed by this video for anyone who watched it... but in a twisted sort of way I think 'fine then, the LZ and launches are crowded enough as it is. If you can't take the heat stay the F out the kitchen'.

Just thinking out loud
What's with your anger?
First off, this vid will all be forgotten in a matter of hours, or perhaps days by the general public.
Second: it's a good reminder for pilots to develop check lists or mnemonic lists, or something to help them to remember each part of their gear prep prior to launch.
Third: launches are crowded? :roll:
I'm not angry, context is easily lost in text vs speech. I'm just a sailor, I cuss a lot. If I'm not cussing you better check my pulse.
Yes, the general public will forget about the video in short order, but that does not change my hypothesis that the knee jerk reaction could change the minds of at least a few potential future pilots or casual tandem customers and that is unfortunate.
Yes, Launches in Southern California and other locations that have fair to excellent weather for most of the year can get pretty crowded... wing tip to wing tip or what we called nuts to butts in the Navy. Come fly Crestline on a beautiful spring/summer/fall day when conditions are perfect and you won't be rolling your eyes about my comment, you'll be rolling your eyes because you can't find a patch of ground big enough to squeeze a Radio Flyer Wagon into let alone set up a Wing.
#405756
DMarley wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:55 pm
CloudDiver wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:54 pm

- Are we going to judge the safety of an entire sport based on one viral video? If that's the case, cancel all commercial flights and future air travel plans. No? Then STFU

It would make me sad to know if potential interest in taking a tandem flight or getting into the sport has been harmed or reversed by this video for anyone who watched it... but in a twisted sort of way I think 'fine then, the LZ and launches are crowded enough as it is. If you can't take the heat stay the F out the kitchen'.

Just thinking out loud
What's with your anger?
First off, this vid will all be forgotten in a matter of hours, or perhaps days by the general public.
Second: it's a good reminder for pilots to develop check lists or mnemonic lists, or something to help them to remember each part of their gear prep prior to launch.
Third: launches are crowded? :roll:
I don't know that it will be forgotten. It's probably a confirmation of their biases in any case. But I expect to be asked about this by people who find out I fly hang gliders for years to come. Not because it happened, but because it appeared on YouTube.
#405760
That tandem Swiss Pilot should have his Tandem license taken away forever. Any tandem pilot should know you hook the client in first. What an idiot. I have taken a buch of people up Tandem at the Crawfords and have never had a problem with hooking in. Why did he not immediatly go to the ground he had time even if he would of landed down wind. I cant believe he lasted as long as he did.or if he didnt have time at the top I would of decided to take a tree landing. Most [people would of not been able to hold as long} JMHO :mosh: :mosh: :mosh: :mosh:
#405763
The number 1 rule in Hang Gliding at launch is Hook In. This guy needs to loose his Tandem rating for life I would of attempted a uphill downwind landing or a tree landing. This guy was an idiot to make you hang that long 98 % of people could not hang that long. You are a amazing Bro. :shark:
main page of the .org

Getting into the sport section could be moved up o[…]

https://www.amazon.com/Honor-Traders-Noodles-Paddi[…]

2019 Green Swamp Sport Klassic

Do you feel like it's too much money, too much ha[…]

Poll on latest USHPA Proposal

I just voted no. If there was a H#LL NO! option, I[…]