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By red
#403069
Campers,

The Mantis simulator rig in the video above is one of several shown here in the HG WIKI:

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/Soaring_simulators

I believe the HG Simulator concept is extremely valuable in teaching beginners to fly HG. You can let the student get relaxed and comfortable, and then take all the time needed to teach (and correct if necessary) all the right control moves. You can also teach them how to go from prone to upright, without the glider rolling and pitching all over the sky. The transition from launching to prone can also be practiced and smoothed out. The last thing any beginner needs is trying to land with a lot of unwanted pitching and rolling on approach. There is a fairly complete "ground school" briefing in the WIKI that goes with the drawing, for use with any HG Simulator.

Seems like the Mantis instructor has an unwarranted fear that his students will confuse roll with yaw, and he immediately transfers this needless concern to the student. IMHO, that anti-yaw device at the rear is beyond useless; it is counter-productive. Most students have no concept of yaw, and he is "fixing" a problem that is not real. Bringing up that "yaw confusion" to a new student is like telling somebody "Don't think BLUE." The immediate human response is to think BLUE, as a result. I see no real need for the "anti-yaw" device on the Mantis. On the rare occasions that confusion may happen, it is easy to correct. N.B. If the Mantis rig was left at a lower height at first, it would be easier to mount the glider on the Heim connection, but hey, what do I know? :wink:

The last Simulator in the WIKI here is simply a Heim connection, mounted on a common engine hoist, although the one shown there is a welded framework that duplicates an engine hoist. If you do use an old engine hoist, though, clean it very well first. Those things are always very oily/greasy. I'd suggest covering the arm and legs of the engine hoist with oil-proof plastic coverings, to keep the glider clean.

For any use of the HG Simulators, take care that the glider (with student) is trimmed for "level flight" when the student flies "hands off." 8)

My $.02 worth.
#403070
Baitrunner wrote: I stumbled across that video while scrolling through one of the hang gliding related FB groups and immediately thought of your post here :)
That video made me think of this (indoor BASE jumping):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXPvDiifJU
Baitrunner wrote: When are we hitting up bluesky again?
When the weather stops sucking. :wink: Which, if last year is any indication of this year, should be around now. Steve said four pilots truck towed last Saturday. He tried to do a scooter lesson in the morning, but they had to stop early. Rain and snow this Saturday will most likely shut down both days this weekend. :(
#407767
I was trying the get a handle on how many cubic yards of dirt was required for a minimal training hill.

This is an approximation of what a came up with. A minimal 20’ hill would require 15,122 cubic yards of dirt.

So is this an unreasonable amount of dirt? For just a temporary weekend event, they move 6000 cubic yards of dirt for Stadium Motorcross. Link A little over twice that amount seems reasonable for a permanent Hang Gliding Training Hill.

Larger hill configurations could be made for soaring. The Bone or a Triangle of thirty feet with a fifteen mile an hour wind would be soarable.

I Googled “parks and recreation grants”. I believe there is government grant money out there to build Hang Gliding Training Hills. They build Skateboard Parks, Soccer Fields, Baseball Fields, and Football Fields. Why not Hang Gliding Training Hills? As a society we need future pilots, seems like a positive contribution to the community and the country.

I welcome your ideas and analytical criticism.

Michael
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User avatar
By red
#407769
magentabluesky wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:00 pmLarger hill configurations could be made for soaring. The Bone or a Triangle of thirty feet with a fifteen mile an hour wind would be soarable.
Michael
Michael,

I'd say GO for it! An alliance with a local HG club may be useful, there. Best wishes.
Don't tell the off-road bikers.

Not exactly a critical comment, but we KNOW when they excavate the ruins of our civilization sometime in the far future, they will find that triangle hill. Then your HG hill will be argued to be either a religious ceremonial site (hey, close!) or a hill fort used to defend the last survivors of the calamity from marauding bands. :shock: :lol:
.
#407770
Always been a fantasy of mine and now Magentabluesky you have it on paper! Build it they will come...especially near a city?..Another of my flying fantasies has now been done too..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7oUD_d6qr8
#407772
Otto Lilienthal built his own hill in Germany for flying back in the 1800's. It was a cone shape so that he could launch in any wind direction. He probably used mules to power the earth moving. I wonder if that hill survived as a historical site?

A good all around HG training site in SoCal would be very popular. Escape Country was fantastic both for training and for longer flights from higher launches (even cross country). A student could work his/her way up to higher launches without ever leaving the site.

Unfortunately the land value for development was too great for it to survive. :cry: For that reason I think that a human made training hill has to be on public land, like a park etc.

Dockweiler Beach bluff serves as a good SoCal training site but it could benefit from a higher bluff and more space. A good training site should have launch choices that include one high enough to begin making easy turns (Escape Country had that).

It's good to be thinking about this and maybe some action will take place, somewhere.

Frank C.
#407784
The man-made soarable ridge is a cool idea. Location would be critical to have good winds. Make it out of giant culvert pipe and you could have a restaurant, gift shop, glider storage, etc. inside of it.

Getting a grant could be a hard sell based on the limited number of citizens that would use it. Maybe approach it from an economic development angle and show projected revenue for instruction at the site and what it could bring in from taxes, supporting other local businesses (hotels, restaurants, gas stations).

Here's Lilienthal's hill again (15 meters ~= 50 feet tall):

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/fliegeberg

That building launch is great! Goes to show you just need a certain length of sloped surface with the right conditions (see my earlier idea in this thread about a ramp that goes up and down like an elevator).

Not to get side-tracked from the hill discussion, but another solution that wouldn't require all the earth-moving or structure building is low-cost surface towing (scooter or winch towing). I've done the majority of my training at Blue Sky near Richmond and have really grown to appreciate the land economy, portability, and flexibility of that means of getting airborne. In the most basic sense, you need a clear "runway" facing in the right direction (for takeoff and landing) and a tow setup to pull you along. Granted there's lots of other considerations like tow bridles, releases, tow operator training, etc., but it's not rocket science. Steve even has one of his scooter tow rigs outfitted for remote operation with a mouth throttle so he can self-tow. Obviously you'd want someone with you as an observer for safety reasons (and maybe trained in emergency ground procedures for what to do if the rig goes haywire), but how cool would that be to just roll up to a piece of land you have permission to fly on, set up your tow rig, and fly? Clubs could form where a tow rig is owned by the club and members pay a yearly fee to belong to the club and use the rig and fly whatever local site(s) are available. With social media or just a good old-fashioned email list, it'd be easy for groups of pilots to get together on weekends, evenings, or even weekdays (curse you free pilots of the retired world - but only because I'm jealous).