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All things hang gliding. This is the main forum. New users, introduce yourself.

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User avatar
By Lucky_Chevy
#379743
This is a double surface sail that could have some application to a quick setup and compact wing.

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By blindrodie
#379745


WOW that's the first time i have seen an idea that is possible TODAY for the design of a portable wing!

What am I missing?

8)
User avatar
By TjW
#379759
Not sure how that helps. It still seems to require a long rigid spar.
User avatar
By Lucky_Chevy
#379762
Consider the sail mated with a telescoping carbon fiber tube. Making the pole strong enough and with positive stops is an engineering challenge but not a difficult problem.

Making the entire assembly compact and light weight is a bigger challenge. In my opinion a 5' (1.5 m) pack length isn't valuable if the wing weigh over 100 lb (45 kg). My current 70 lb (32 kg) is barely manageable at times.

This is an interesting project. I hope some of the manufacturer's take note.



Dan
User avatar
By joefaust
#379796
[youtube]
[/youtube]

Lucky_Chevy,
Yes, the spar may get high focus: Examining comprehensively spar choices may be a key solution path. Low mass is to be kept in mind. Comparing spar options would be a keen preliminary adventure.
X-deploying
Encased bladder spars
Splinted encased bladdered spars (tensairity enhanced cased air bladders)
Telescoping spars
Tensairity spars
Tempered-shell-that-coil spars
Segmented shell spars
Truss spars
Telescoping trussed spars
Multiple thin-shell segments (telescoping)
Hybrid: central shell segment and then cased bladder air beam spars. Use central shell segment as the macro tote case for all gear.
... and more. It would be the fun thing to have a robust mastery over spars that may become compact in various ways
=================================================

==> Thinnest Plates That Can Also Flex and Be Picked Up by Hand May Create New Flight Materials

=================================================

==> Rigidized Inflatables

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Image

==================================================
==> Air Bridge

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Technical historic note: The basic technology of splinted air beams is ancient. That a company has pushed and registered a trade name "Tensairity" does not mean they own the fundamental method; they don't.
==================================================

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User avatar
By flyit
#379844
Im New to hang gliding and about to get my H2 rating. I will say to the idea of simplifying set up and break down, this is a worthy idea, but a bigger problem is directly related to very limited flying sites available. Making Flat land foot launch a regular part of this sport will change everything. It is a very very needed option to grow hang gliding in all areas of the world. see E help hang glider on youtube.
This is a very real opportunity. I know the sport is traditionally about soaring, but lets be honest, to far and few between mountain and pro aerotow launch sites will always be the limiting issue to growing the sport. One day soon I will launch out of a park in my home town with a power assist pod and people will come to see me and want to learn how they can get into the sport. Ill tell them go to hg school and then buy an e powered pod. My thoughts on growing the sport. Kindly Flyit..
User avatar
By raquo
#379851
Thanks for the SoftWing video, Lucky_Chevy!

Previous Sock glider designs that I've seen worked differently – you would take off the sail starting from the *root*, and you ended up with a bunch of sail in your hands by the time you got to the wingtip. Keeping the sail at the root on the other hand simplifies set up & breakdown a lot, and saves some weight since you don't need to connect the sails together at the root.

This technique is most impressive on a cantilever spar typical for rigids, but it could be used on flex wings too. Bowsprits most obviously, but maybe even on those with a crossbar. Non-cantilever rigids too.

---

Speaking of inflatables... I'm not sure I would trust a fully inflatable glider more than a modern PG. However, some components could still be inflatable, e.g. ribs. If those fail, they would probably fail independently of each other and a single failure would not cause an accident.

Or maybe some kind of rigid structure could be designed that holds up to +3G / -2G, and some inflatable component reinforces it to the common +6G / -4G. The point being, if the inflatable component fails, you still have a good chance of landing safely. I don't suppose putting an inflatable bladder inside a typical HG alum or carbon tube would reinforce it much? There could be other ways...
User avatar
By joefaust
#379899
flyit,
eHG is also my pet future-predict for HG. eHG will open millions of launch and landing opportunities. Small eHG will permit landing practice in calms.
Integrating e charge internally of the HG frame or/and harness will occur well.

eHG should have its own special forum topic thread.

The topic of the 5 ft-or-less project/movement is worthy of its own focus.
Such combined with eHG is one of my personal targets for busable trekking.

Best,
Joe

==================================
MORE SoftWing
==> http://soft-wing.ch/en/category/softwing-project/
and:
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User avatar
By joefaust
#380054
Four items:

1. http://www.northropgrumman.com/Business ... X-Beam.pdf
PDF on X Beam deployable beam

2. Stellar site:
http://www.laboratoridenvol.com/pindex.en.html Pere Casellas

3. The "6-ft Falcon" is not yet in the "5-ft-or-less" space, but have a look-see:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31094 [And the "6 ft" might really be a point to have confirmed preceisely; how much more than "6 ft" is the bagged deal?]

4. ==> http://patentimages.storage.googleapis. ... D00000.png
Then: ==> Deployable truss with orthogonally-hinged primary chords
US 8813455 B2
User avatar
By Stallpolicer
#390620
Let's aim for slightly less than 9 feet. That size can fit on a standard long-pallet and be shipped anywhere.
User avatar
By Johannez
#402649
Hi everyone,

I just stumbled upon this old sketch, and decided to see if anyone is looking into the same thing; a collapsable back-pack hang glider. So i ended up here :)

The ultimate idea is to make it collapsable with limited amount of (de-)construction time. a single inner spring could provide the tension, to unfold and fold it would only need to be applied or released.

I'm sure it would require some very expensive composite materials to make it sturdy and light enough, but i figured using big O-rings could relieve the joints of a lot of the major stress-loads. re-enforcing all the spars with a curved carbon structure could do the trick.

i think it should be possible..right? and it would look great too ;)
Attachments
backpack hangglider concept.jpg
sketch of a collapsable backpack hang glider
backpack hangglider concept.jpg (584.01 KiB) Viewed 1176 times
User avatar
By joefaust
#404364
Still working. One solution in my design notes is being called BW (Big Wheel); and it is expected to be be at 3 ft. Soon, I hope.
User avatar
By red
#404367
Campers,

Not sure if my new (old) proposal would be 5' long when packed,but it may be less than 6'. There is an old design called the Crossbow that could easily be converted to a breakdown model, even more so than the original. Going from the root to the tips, the tubing would sleeve into the next smaller size tubing in several places, all the way out to the tips. The entire wing is made from a single spar, curved rearward. Some or most of the leading edge might be Carbon Fiber. This image is the only thing Google found that was even close. The Crossbow leading edge spar curved rearward only, though, with no interior crossbars. A triangle control bar, regular keel, and struts instead of sidewires would be all the airframe needed.

Image

A horizontal tailplane could be made with the same design as the wing, with fiberglass poles for the leading edges this time, curving rearward, and no other rigid parts.

I know the original Crossbow had control and handling issues, but I think we know enough now to overcome those problems. Anybody out there have any images of the original Crossbow design, that they can share?
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User avatar
By raquo
#404398
Red, I think you're talking about Bill Brooks' Longbow hang glider with a bow leading edge. Matches your description including control problems (spiral instability). There are some materials and technical details about it online including on HG.org and ozreport, but sadly no photos. Like many other promising projects, this one was closed for lack of funds for further development.

It seems that Bill Brooks is still involved in HG R&D so maybe if someone asks nicely he could share some Longbow photos or information. I would LOVE to see some.
User avatar
By joefaust
#404400
Following raquo:

http://www.nestofdragons.net/rigid-wing ... g/longbow/

2.4 m pack.
Design not completed to satisfaction ...
=====================================
In the general family:
http://www.laboratoridenvol.com/project ... ex.en.html
=====================================
RIP both Brett Snellgrove and Didier Favre
=====================================

My notes:
Energy stored in a bow structure is to be respected for safety. :thumbsup: Sudden release of the energy could kill someone standing near the unloading bow. Fast moving release bow line may cut and blind.

My bow-HG notes: double surface: taut lower surface from bow structure; upper surface made taut with rib insertions. Airfoil pitch stability brought in through sprog and specific rib-design means. Bow spar has options that are interesting. I see potential for 5-ft packs via several spar options.
User avatar
By red
#404403
raquo wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:18 am
Red, I think you're talking about Bill Brooks' Longbow hang glider with a bow leading edge. Matches your description including control problems (spiral instability). There are some materials and technical details about it online including on HG.org and ozreport, but sadly no photos.
Raquo,

I might have been mistaken on the name, or maybe I was given the wrong information there. I believe the glider/pilot was based in the SouthWest USA, though, not the UK. It may have been a copy of the work of somebody else, too. I believe the one I remember was tensioned with a ratchet-strap, then tension was held by strap buckles and a big (metal?) zipper. The overall sail tension was similar to modern HGs, but seemed radical at the time. I'd still like to see any pix of the Longbow (or Crossbow), if possible.

My next candidate for the 5' backpack glider would be JD's White-Tailed-Dart (or anything similar to the bowsprit Aeolus). That Aeolus design needed development, sure, but i think they were definitely on the right track, if only for reasons of pilot safety (isn't that enough?). I believe that our keels got 'way too short to be safe in the 1980s, and that modern bowsprit designs (with tailfeathers) could reduce injuries while increasing performance. All IMHO, of course.
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By KevinB
#404490
It seems to me an inflatable hang glider might work ok for hike and fly. There's a Woopy glider that is inflatable and maybe on the right track for something like this.
User avatar
By red
#404495
KevinB wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:47 pm
It seems to me an inflatable hang glider might work ok for hike and fly. There's a Woopy glider that is inflatable and maybe on the right track for something like this.
KevinB,

Yeah, I have posted many times in past years about the Woopy-Fly. Crude as it may be, for now, it seems to deliver surprisingly good performance. I'd really like to develop a similar idea. Even the powered Woopy is reasonably transportable. As said by Maxwell Smart, "They missed it by THAT much" (while showing a pinching gesture). 8)

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