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By Ken.de.Russy
#267910
liftlover wrote:Does anyone have a list of 1975-76 ratings issued? I would love to have my old ushga # but I have been told those records were lost.
The instructor who issued your rating might have his copy of your rating, your club secretary may have your number on an old roster or maybe the easiest is to find one of your old magazines and get the number from the mailing label.
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By Cloudhopper
#267914
From when I started in 1974... Jan Case & Lee Sterios were my instructors.
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chandelle.jpg
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By mgforbes
#267919
liftlover wrote:Does anyone have a list of 1975-76 ratings issued? I would love to have my old ushga # but I have been told those records were lost.
No, we've got the records all the way back. The trick is finding them.

Some of the files are in the long term storage locker. Current and recent members are in the files at the office. We still have the original card file that was used back when the addressing was done by an Addressograph (metal plates, embossed with address, like an old credit card embosser) and we have the cross-reference organized by last name. But that assumes that your cross reference card wasn't mis-filed or lost, unless you know what your member number was. If we can't find the card, and you don't know your number, then finding your file would be a matter of searching many thousands of paper files.

In the magazine archive there are early issues with the member names listed, and we can get a rough idea from the date when you first joined since we've issued numbers sequentially without repeats or skips. I just looked through some of the 1975 and 1976 issues, and I don't see any membership info or ratings listed in that era though. Earlier magazines had a roster for a while in the early days, but it got too long and unwieldy.

If you can find an old magazine with your name on it, or if you remember about when your rating was issued, or if you recall another member who had a number close to yours, whom we might be able to find, that would all help to narrow down the range. First off, call Beth at the office and give her what info you have, and see if she can track you down. She's pretty good at that.

MGF
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By Cal Glider
#268002
peanuts wrote:what year did USHGA start rating system, certified instructors, etc. next when did the previous outfit do these things.
“Hang rating?...We don’t need no stinking hang rating!”
I taught myself in 69 and was grandfathered into the USHGA in 1975. The people who signed off my H-3 & H-4 were a flight director named John K. last name starts with letters La I can’t read the rest. may be Lake? The Observer was a D. Cohen. I wonder if they are even still alive. I taught a few, but I never got paid, does that count as being an instructor?
Onlooker…”Oh wow man, far out! That looks so cool man! Can you teach me?”
Andy “Oh yea man, it’s easy.”
Onlooker “how much”
Andy “ya got a can?” (Unit of measure used in the 70s based on the capacity of a Prince Albert pipe tobacco tin.)
Onlooker “No... I got a half…will that do?”
Andy thinks about it for a moment “That's cool... come on over here to the kite and I’ll show you what to do, like I said, it easy man…”
Be it known that no students were harmed and no kites damaged during these lessons. However; the student did ingest large amounts of beach sand due to multiple face plants…
Andy “Oh wow man…I TOLD you your nose was to low!!!…Ah,are you ok man???” :rofl:
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By jjcote
#268004
Cal Glider wrote:I taught myself in 69 and was grandfathered into the USHGA in 1975. The people who signed off my H-3 & H-4 were a flight director named John K. last name starts with letters La I can’t read the rest. may be Lake? The Observer was a D. Cohen. I wonder if they are even still alive.
John K. Lake shows up as having issued some ratings between 1975 and 1978, including H5 ratings for Joe Greblo and... Ken De Russy! D. Cohen appears only as having given ratings to one Lyle Anderson (that's you, right?) in 1976. Neither shows up in the member directory now. Any further info, Ken?
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By Fred Wilson
#268015
Ken.de.Russy wrote:I am pretty sure Mike is the longest active hang gliding instructor in the world. He is also the first guy to horse tow a Dickenson wing. The day he stops teaching we have made plans to cryogenically freeze him, texture him with a lifelike exo-skin, ram some animatronic equipment up his butt and put him straight on display at the Hang Gliding Museum. He will be in the foyer greeting visitors.
miguel wrote:I don’t hang out on hg.org so thatnks for that – Ken’s a riot; love him.
Anyway, for the record, I started teaching in ‘68 part time and full time in ‘70. If you want to share that with the group that’s Ok by me. be well
High Perspictive: http://www.flyhigh.com/
Hangskier wrote:Does anyone trace how many instructors between them and their instructor?
For the record, I first took a couple of lessons from Peter Elms on an old beater standard.
That winter, Seagull Aircraft came out with the Seagull.

It was the first Hang Glider I had ever seen that looked airworthy.
I bought one next to sight unseen. Arrived at Randy Rauck's http://lumbyairforce.com/school.htm course on the Lumby Ski Hill that winter for my first real feet off the ground flights.

To this day I still remember his eyes, like saucers, when a student arrived, without notice, with his own brand new high tech Novice Glider.

Instructors since then include
Eric Oddy,
Lee Scott High Adventure http://www.highadventure.com.au/flying-sites/
Dave Broyles, http://www.kite-enterprises.com/article ... pcalls.htm
Jocky Sanderson (Best Advanced Maneouvers Course period... including HG.) http://www.escapexc.com/
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By Cal Glider
#268020
ChattaroyMan wrote:
Hangskier wrote:.... It would be interesting to see in some type of chart.
That would be cool. Best to start it now before too many old farts die off.
Hey, I resemble that remark! :cuss: Trying to figure out when I got old…advanced age is not for the faint of heart! Oh, I got to go…time to take my morning meds…

Old diver pilots never die...they just lose their flare.
By Phoenix
#268021
Dang specieists! The birds! It were the birds!!!! :thumbsup:
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By Cal Glider
#268023
jjcote wrote:
Cal Glider wrote: ]
John K. Lake shows up as having issued some ratings between 1975 and 1978, including H5 ratings for Joe Greblo and... Ken De Russy! D. Cohen appears only as having given ratings to one Lyle Anderson (that's you, right?) in 1976. Neither shows up in the member directory now. Any further info, Ken?
Yup, that’s me. My membership expired like last month. I have no wings and no money to buy any let alone renew. Talked to USHG(P)A and they said I have a 3 year grace period before I lose my ratings. So like Arnold said… “I’ll be back.” (Anyone got a Freedom 170 they will sell on the cheap to an old man???)
I think this was the first HG club at Torrey.
Here’s a card I got from an over seas club. PSS? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I don’t know what the rating cards look like now, this what they looked like back then. I left all the files large. If you crank up IE to 200% mag you can read the requirements for the rating...as to the XC...I think I flew 1 mile or so, and thats only because Palomar MTN is so high... :thumbsup:
Attachments
Torrey Pines Hang Gliding Association Membership Card  Card 1978.jpg
Torrey Pines Hang Gliding Association Membership Card Card 1978.jpg (111.84 KiB) Viewed 337 times
PSSI Hang-3 front.jpg
PSSI Hang-3 front.jpg (302.43 KiB) Viewed 335 times
USHGA Hang-III.jpg
USHGA Hang-III.jpg (389.06 KiB) Viewed 337 times
USHGA Hang-II.jpg
USHGA Hang-II.jpg (369.84 KiB) Viewed 339 times
User avatar
By Ken.de.Russy
#268053
jjcote wrote:
Cal Glider wrote:I taught myself in 69 and was grandfathered into the USHGA in 1975. The people who signed off my H-3 & H-4 were a flight director named John K. last name starts with letters La I can’t read the rest. may be Lake? The Observer was a D. Cohen. I wonder if they are even still alive.
John K. Lake shows up as having issued some ratings between 1975 and 1978, including H5 ratings for Joe Greblo and... Ken De Russy! D. Cohen appears only as having given ratings to one Lyle Anderson (that's you, right?) in 1976. Neither shows up in the member directory now. Any further info, Ken?
When the program started pilots who qualified could be rated at any rating they qualified for and the built in wait times between ratings were waved. John Lake held the position of Flight Director and his name was preprinted on all cards at first. The person shown as the Observer was the one who was attesting to the rating applicant having satisfied the requirements for a rating and should be listed as the Rating Official.

Lake, like Licher, had a background in the sailplane community and worked in the association to create, and implement the rating system. Lake developed the Sailfeather which was a cloth triangle mounted to the tail wires as a dive recovery device. Lake also was one of many different individuals who was actively involved with Sport Kites, later known as Wills Wing, during the turbulent period around the death of Bob Wills. I don't know if he was actually employed by the firm but I recall he and others struggled to keep the company moving forward. I don't recall that he was active as an instructor.

I would have thought lake was no longer active by the time I was awarded my Master rating. My certificate is signed by Jan Case as Chairman of the Safety and Training Committee. Lake's signature or name is not seen on that certificate. My Hang 4 had Lake's name preprinted on it as did all from that time but it was John Baird who was the Observer who signed me off for that rating.

The ratings system appointed only Observers at the outset. All ratings were issued by those Observers. Some months later the first Instructor ratings were issued after completing an ICP. I recall that the Observer position was seen as a temporary measure until we had until we had a cadre of Instructors. This position made sense as it was understood that instruction was an important and specialized skill that is not automatically present simply by virtue of possessing advanced flying skills. The Observer position evolved to be an alternative to paying for advanced instruction and ultimately it was retained for the ostensible purpose to serve areas where no instructors were available.
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By Cal Glider
#268148
Speaking of numbers. I am a bit confused as to just what my number is. The membership card that was issued back in the day has 1/73 NG underneath that is #19-60 and the pre printed signature is of someone named Vern Roun…dtace?
The next oldest card is much more legible, and it has HG#64-75 Lloyd M. Licher President. In the upper right corner is the NO 19155 /10-I However when I showed my cards to John Heinie, he stated that my pilot number is #975 which is the number on both my H3 & H4. Is there a difference between pilot number and membership number?
I have wondered just where I stand in the membership line of the then fledgling USHGA. I would have had a much lower number still than whatever mine is, but I was a rebel. I like to fly without a helmet so I could hear the wind, the better to judge my airspeed. (Heck I flew Torrey a few times wearing nada but my harness, get a mental picture of that…on second thought, lets not) :crazy: LOL. I flat out refused to sign up, “Hang card, I don’t need no hang card!” I only joined the club when they threatened to not allow me to fly Torrey unless I did. :surrender: So, am I the 975 member to join, or am I the 975 H-3/H-4 to be issued or the 975th flying member or am I the 19155th member of the USHGA???
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By Ken.de.Russy
#268192
Cal Glider wrote:Speaking of numbers. I am a bit confused as to just what my number is. The membership card that was issued back in the day has 1/73 NG underneath that is #19-60 and the pre printed signature is of someone named Vern Roun…dtace?
The next oldest card is much more legible, and it has HG#64-75 Lloyd M. Licher President. In the upper right corner is the NO 19155 /10-I However when I showed my cards to John Heinie, he stated that my pilot number is #975 which is the number on both my H3 & H4. Is there a difference between pilot number and membership number?
I have wondered just where I stand in the membership line of the then fledgling USHGA. I would have had a much lower number still than whatever mine is, but I was a rebel. I like to fly without a helmet so I could hear the wind, the better to judge my airspeed. (Heck I flew Torrey a few times wearing nada but my harness, get a mental picture of that…on second thought, lets not) :crazy: LOL. I flat out refused to sign up, “Hang card, I don’t need no hang card!” I only joined the club when they threatened to not allow me to fly Torrey unless I did. :surrender: So, am I the 975 member to join, or am I the 975 H-3/H-4 to be issued or the 975th flying member or am I the 19155th member of the USHGA???
957 is the rating number and 19155 is your member number. I don't know how long they numbered the ratings and can only guess that the number indicates the number of that particular rating that had been issued. My Hang 4 is #155. And that name you wondered about was Vern Roundtree a Pacific Northwest HGA member. The early cards listed the Ground Skimmer numbers that you would get so HG#64-75 represents the 12 issues you would receive. There was no insurance then so the magazine was the most important benefit and rather than define your membership by calendar dates you were assured a number of magazines. In those days much more than a month went by between issues. I don't know what the 10-1 is. My early cards say 12-1 below my 5114 member number. I can't guess what that means. Both my first two cards with expiration 2/76 GS#26-37 on the second one are stamped by Licher. The next is 5/77 GS #41-52 stamped Roundtree.The next one after that is stamped Powell. Your card with Roundtree can't be 73. Licher was on the cards until at least 76. What 1/73 NG and #19-60 mean I can't figure.
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By airtimeabove
#268374
When I first started flying in the fall of 1970 winter of 71 Lee Sterios and Jan Case had just started working at Chandelle In Golden Colorado. They were among my first instructors or mentors at the time. Along with couple of instructor named Dave Gibbus and Gorden Cumings. Flew with Lee and Jan in Colorado until they moved to California

I still have a picture of Lee flying a chandelle in a harness made of a fire hose. It had no chest strap and he is flying prone. I used the same harness for seated..

We flew a lot of different things back then from home built out of magazines, to stuff we experimented for manufactures.

I remember attending I think the second instructor clinics held by the USHGA Would have to dig for that info. But had already been teaching for a long time before that with Chandelle and then Golden Sky Sails in Colorado. The 2 Instructors that gave that Clinic were Bill Sloatman and Al Godman
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By jjcote
#268382
Ken.de.Russy wrote:
Cal Glider wrote:Speaking of numbers. I am a bit confused as to just what my number is. The membership card that was issued back in the day has 1/73 NG underneath that is #19-60 and the pre printed signature is of someone named Vern Roun…dtace?
The next oldest card is much more legible, and it has HG#64-75 Lloyd M. Licher President. In the upper right corner is the NO 19155 /10-I However when I showed my cards to John Heinie, he stated that my pilot number is #975 which is the number on both my H3 & H4. Is there a difference between pilot number and membership number?
I have wondered just where I stand in the membership line of the then fledgling USHGA. I would have had a much lower number still than whatever mine is, but I was a rebel. I like to fly without a helmet so I could hear the wind, the better to judge my airspeed. (Heck I flew Torrey a few times wearing nada but my harness, get a mental picture of that…on second thought, lets not) :crazy: LOL. I flat out refused to sign up, “Hang card, I don’t need no hang card!” I only joined the club when they threatened to not allow me to fly Torrey unless I did. :surrender: So, am I the 975 member to join, or am I the 975 H-3/H-4 to be issued or the 975th flying member or am I the 19155th member of the USHGA???
957 is the rating number and 19155 is your member number. I don't know how long they numbered the ratings and can only guess that the number indicates the number of that particular rating that had been issued. My Hang 4 is #155. And that name you wondered about was Vern Roundtree a Pacific Northwest HGA member. The early cards listed the Ground Skimmer numbers that you would get so HG#64-75 represents the 12 issues you would receive. There was no insurance then so the magazine was the most important benefit and rather than define your membership by calendar dates you were assured a number of magazines. In those days much more than a month went by between issues. I don't know what the 10-1 is. My early cards say 12-1 below my 5114 member number. I can't guess what that means. Both my first two cards with expiration 2/76 GS#26-37 on the second one are stamped by Licher. The next is 5/77 GS #41-52 stamped Roundtree.The next one after that is stamped Powell. Your card with Roundtree can't be 73. Licher was on the cards until at least 76. What 1/73 NG and #19-60 mean I can't figure.
Any chance that the "NG" is really "HG", and that the #19-60 is really #49-60 (which would be 12 issues of Ground Skimmer)?
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By ChattaroyMan
#268385
At some point in time USHGA started putting your member number on your mailing label for HG mag. I had blended out of hangs and into ULs in late 1981 and stayed a full member until late 1984. When I rejoined in 2010 USHPA gave me my old number back. I started flying in 1975 but didn't join USHGA until 1976. My membership card now says I've been member since 1976 (not really though.....). When I did rejoin in 2010 I sent USHPA a photo of a cover of one of my old mags with the mailing label. But, I don't think they needed it as I think they found me in their records. I didn't ask for my H4 back. Flew for it this fall but haven't taken the written yet (call me a foot dragger!).
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By Cloudhopper
#268403
I found this in my old logbook..... Too bad they don't still issue cards like this...
Attachments
Master rating Card Small.jpg
Master rating Card Small.jpg (255.35 KiB) Viewed 4054 times
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By DaveB
#268467
airtimeabove wrote: The 2 Instructors that gave that Clinic were Bill Sloatman and Al Godman
The same 2 that gave me my first lessons in '77 at Golden Sky Sail.
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By waltspoint
#404888
Heh, I just noticed this thread is so old I posted in it six years ago! Might as well leave my post I guess.

Lee Sterios was my first instructor. He sold me a Chandelle and taught me to fly it, as much as it was possible to fly a Standard. I also remember Rick, Steve, George, and Jan from the Top-of-the-hill Daly City shop. Those were very exciting times.

My card says 1980, #30778. But I think I must have been a USHGA member in the 70's because I was flying at Ft. Funstion which I think required membership. I wasn't sentimental in those days, and didn't keep any records. I recall having to pay I think $25, which was a lot of money for me at the time. I'd like my card to say 1976 or whatever, and have a lower number. I wonder if there is any way to look that far into the past from USHGA records?
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