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#406206
"protect themselves and their flying sites against bad actors."

It isn't their flying site. Before we address any "issues below the surface", how's about addressing that simple fact? Though, I haven't seen you address any issue below the surface other than a general statement about how you are "protecting" a site, without actually providing any evidence about how you believe you are doing that.

You can call it BS all you want, do you have anything at all to back it?

"Logan, your words are falling on deaf ears". I agree, the club members probably believe their own BS and don't want to listen, that's fine. Facts are facts, and public land is public.








#406207
A club is an organization that promotes flying activities, they do not "protect" members or the public from anything. That is the job of law enforcement. A club has ZERO authority of the actions of its members or non member pilots especially at sites located on public land. The grave misconception is where u have members or officers of said clubs doing illegal things like attempting to restrain someone to prevent them from launching. In all seriousness USHPA is going to need to address this because someone is going to escalate this into a physical confrontation. Because when that happens, nobody wins.
#406208
Dave, I think you may have misunderstood my meaning of 'protecting their sites.' Most people are respectful of other's pre-established presence and positions. IE, pre-existing sites that have been developed and maintained by the sweat and monies of members of a site or group of sites, ie, a club perhaps. When people stop respecting the established positions of others, then chaos soon ensues. Then law enforcement is called in, and usually for the worse for everyone concerned.
Typically, if a pilot is refused access to a site by a club or organization due to some inadequacies or bad-acting, the pilot strives to improve and/or conform to be accepted. There's little to be gained by battling a full group of people when it comes to social sports such as HG/PG. You end up merely making yourself an enemy of everyone. That is why most people would rather accept a groups' rules and regs and be part of the group rather than to bully their way to the launch and endure duress on the LZ. Those regs likely have been honed and been proven to be the best compromise for all the pilots at the site. If someone believes that he does not have to abide by those rules and regs, then the ruling group can ask him to leave or to conform. This is the means by which a group of pilots 'protects' the endurance of their site. This is the way of society. Only anarchists would believe otherwise.

Logan, some tight-knit group of people, long long before your flying existence, put forth much effort to secure those 'public lands' that you speak of. They also put forth effort in retaining those lands open for free flight, not to mention general maintenance. I highly doubt that the controlling local club receives any monies from the gov't for maintenance, etc. The club is likely tasked with keeping the grounds clean and safe for pilots and non-pilots alike.

What happens when merely anyone can jump on a glider with little or poor training, with no one to ensure pilots are of capable skill levels? You say it's their risk. No, it's not just their risk. It's the site's risk as well. As public opinion tires of ill-trained people becoming injured or worse at the site, a willing politician will see an opportunity to endear him/herself to the public by ending all free flight. Not just at this site, but other sites within his/her district. Then news will travel to surrounding districts. And a repeat becomes a giant snowball smashing every flying site in it's path. Are you ready for that?
No, this is all of our risk. And this is where a local ruling club at a flying site can help squelch the rise of anarchy.
#406209
"What happens when merely anyone can jump on a glider with little or poor training, with no one to ensure pilots are of capable skill levels? You say it's their risk. No, it's not just their risk."

Are you questioning the legality of FAR 103? Should we call up the FAA and tell them that they are wrong?

Copied directly from:
PREAMBLE
Part 103-Ultralight Vehicles
Operating Requirements

"The USHGA's self-regulation program lacks the legal authority to enforce requirements to ensure the safety of others. There is no requirement for any hang glider operator to be a member of the USHGA.”"

https://www.usua.org/Rules/faa103.htm
http://www.fly-ul.com/preamble.html

Quit acting like you are acting as arbiters of public good will. If you want to destroy FAR 103 that is fine, I have my License (technically pending). Regardless, you have no legal authority over public land. In fact the FAA has determined that clubs have ZERO authority over the sport of hang gliding.

"then the ruling group can ask him to leave or to conform"
And I say "No".... problem solved :)

"And this is where a local ruling club at a flying site can help squelch the rise of anarchy."

Exactly how would a club do this? Assault? Kidnapping? I would consider violent felonies and misappropriation of public resources to be a greater concern than the "anarchy" which has been sanctioned by the FAA and guaranteed by our civil liberties.
#406210
As always, you have not thoroughly read my post. Or, you merely aim to mix my words into a completely different meaning than what I wrote. As such, you are not worthy to be listened to or to be conversing with. You have little honor, if at all, by your convoluting words.

I must be conversing with a bad bot.
I'll leave you to your fun. Enjoy.
#406212
DMarley wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:06 pm
As always, you have not thoroughly read my post. Or, you merely aim to mix my words into a completely different meaning than what I wrote. As such, you are not worthy to be listened to or to be conversing with. You have little honor, if at all, by your convoluting words.

I must be conversing with a bad bot.
I'll leave you to your fun. Enjoy.
Wow... what a rebuttal! :roflcat:
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