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By Roadrunner71
#404113
How many of you guys feel that Helmet Manufacturers should release how well a Helmet protects the wearers Skull from an initial strike. The strike, that energy energy from reaching said-wearers Skull, and more importantly said wearers Brain from needing to absorb the energy from a head strike. Ile an initial strike of X G's, how well said Helmet would reduce X amount of G's down to Y amount of G's.
User avatar
By red
#404114
Roadrunner71 wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:01 am
How many of you guys feel that Helmet Manufacturers should release how well a Helmet protects the wearers Skull from an initial strike. The strike, that energy energy from reaching said-wearers Skull, and more importantly said wearers Brain from needing to absorb the energy from a head strike. Ile an initial strike of X G's, how well said Helmet would reduce X amount of G's down to Y amount of G's.
Chris,

I don't think those numbers will ever come out, but I wish they would, too.

In reality, head strikes can come from many angles. Contact with sand may slide the helmet, reducing forces, while contact with rock may grab into the helmet, causing a more sudden stop. Hair length, headliners, and balaclavas can all change how much protection you will get from a helmet; sometimes it will be more, and sometimes less. Manufacturers just can't give answers for each of those factors. Even the weight of each head would be a factor, which can be different between pilots. A helmet that works well in a straight impact may fail miserably in a side impact.

Helmet do have testing standards. It may be helpful if you can ask each manufacturer about the standards that they can pass, for their various helmet lines. In general, any helmet that passes many standards will protect better than a helmet which only passes a few standards. In the real world, though, there will be impacts which no helmet can give enough head protection, to anybody.

I wish I had better news.
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By Roadrunner71
#404126
This Head injury Situation that I have found myself in, has been a hum Dinger. For I never Dreamed that we guess was a Blown approach that I would end up damaging my brain. In the past I imagined that I could, or I might be involved in say a Mid-Air. But, to do the damage that I did to myself during a landing. Well that left me in a state of shock. I have come to learn that my Doctors have written me off. Knowing that my Doctors have kicked me to the Curb has been a very difficult pill to swallow. Hell it could have turned out so much worse. I could have been put in a Sniff.


Guys I don't want to sit here and Lament about my current state. So, next weekend, with a little luck I will be riding along assisting the Driver. This way I at least get to be part of the Flying Day. At least for now. I think my best chance to be flying in the same air as my friends. this will be in a Sailplane.

By the way: Sailplanes have unreal performance.
By Roadrunner71
#404200
I'm just sorta confused, well quite Frankly I'm amazed that Pilots when they talk about Helmets. When they talk about Helmets They use terms such as "Hang-Glider helmets", "Motorcycle Helmets", Skiing helmets, "etc, etc, etc". By my even writing this, I run the risk of having some say something such as: "He has issues with Helmets." I do have issues with Helmets. I have issues with Helmets that do a poor job of protecting me from the forces that I could possible encounter. The high G forces that I WOULD ENCOUNTER if my Helmet wearing skull that would be moving along encountered a object that caused my Head to be in a situation where my Skull, along with my Brain inside my Skull would be subjected to. Another thing Guys: Please do not simply write me off as a Hack Pilot who cannot land. I can land a Glider, I can land a Glider quite well thank-You. If you think that my statement regarding my Ability to land a Glider is Hot Air. Then simply ask John Heiney if Chris McKeon can Land, or is making idle boasts regarding his ability to land a glider. Or ask Pilot-X, or anyone else that knows that I do indeed do have the ability to land my Predator Well.

The way I see it is like this: It really does not matter how well I can land. Because on March 28th 2010 I got Caught! This should get you guys to start thinking about yourselves.

Well, I do hope that someday each one of you and I will be in the same Thermal coring up to Cloud-Base together.

Good By Chris McKeon CCMCK@GOLDSTATE.NET 925-497-1059
User avatar
By remmoore
#404205
Chris,

This is a great article that starts out with a TBI of a skier, but gets into helmet design. This particular section concisely answers your question about a prospective G-rating for helmets - it's pretty much what I imagined.

First, here's a link to the article:
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/in ... Crash.html

Now, here's the quote:

Helmet manufacturers, of course, do their own testing and know precisely how well they stack up against other brands. And if they make a helmet that tests better than average, they’d love to say so. But ­doing that would expose them to personal-­injury lawsuits. If someone is injured wearing a helmet that a company promoted as safer, that company is likely to get sued—and lose. The ­arrangement hurts consumers most. Litigious paralysis means there has been a disincentive to invest in R&D, and many helmet makers have been perfectly happy to reap the profits of selling molded-foam-and-nylon-webbing contrap­tions at high margins while making little ongoing investment in safety. As Helmet.org’s Swart, who is also a vice chairman of an ASTM committee, told me, “Nobody takes you to court over a fashion claim.”

Helmet.org has a very interesting website, detailing many, many helmet manufacturers and their products. They get into seemingly every aspect of helmet protection, who is making strides toward better helmet design, and who is just coasting. Here's what that have to say about my favorite manufacturer, Kali Protectives:

"Kali is a leader in researching and using new technology and materials. The company has unique manufacturing techniques that produce a full line of helmets that are all molded in the shell, some with dual-density foam liners molded together so there is no gap between them, and no gap between liner and shell, using all the shell space for foam. Liner density can be different in various areas of the helmet, or there can be "ConeHead" cones of less dense foam extending into the dense section. Other Kali liners use the Armorcel rubber hourglass-shaped pieces between layers attempting to displace impact energy to the sides similarly to the claims for MIPS. We expect Kali to continue to produce innovative new products. "

RM
By Roadrunner71
#404243
"X" and others.


It simply amazes me that our Justice system would enable a layer representing an individual? Or would it be a helmet MFG. that usedour radically corrupt Court system in conducting an assault on a helmet MFG simply because They would make the Statement that their Helmet in the Event a wearer would prevent Said Wearer From Having Person X's Brain from experiencing an excessive amount of A G-Load from an unwanted Strike to Pilot X's Skull.

Guys, there is in Life situations That are Right, and there are Situations that are Wrong. This situation is Wong. I say sue the Court that hands down a Victory to an I don't even know what to call this Individual? I think We should refer to any Layer or Judge that would work in concert to take Down a Helmet MFG. down that would "Dare to make the Claim That Their Helmet would protect Said Wearer better in the event of a unwanted Head strike than other Helmets" I am sure that a Helmet's ability to Shield Said wearers Skull, along with their Brain from a Head strike. I am sure that this information can be Quantified. Please Note: This could be Quantified if the Wearer took a frontal strike. Or even a Frontal-Rotational Strike.

P-S: I do not have issues with Helmets, I have issues with Helmets that when you need them to protect you they do a Poor job.
User avatar
By DMarley
#404255
Chris, I agree with you that our U.S. court system leaves much to be desired. However, don't expect anything as good in any other country. Though, perhaps manufactures in other countries may be better protected against frivolous lawsuits. I don't know.

There are possibly an infinite un-knowns during a real-world helmet strike. Any manufacturer's lab attempts to simulate different helmet strikes, but usually only to the limits set by the written standards. The manufacturers are in business to make something that resembles a profit, just as any other business, just as any of us work for profit (hopefully). If they save a brain or ten, it's all good. Competition is keen, so they have to make the best with the technologies they already possess. R&D is quite expensive if you're not making a big enough profit to pay for everything and the added expense.
As has been rebutted many times on this forum, there are some helmets out there that will possibly perform better in some strikes compared to other helmets. A pilot, like always, has to do his/her research and hold a finger up into the ether-winds before whipping out the credit card.
There will be many accidents where no helmet made will prevent brain trauma. There may be a specific magnitude of G-force that a person can endure without damage that is different from the next pilot. And it could also depend upon the direction of that force vector, as well. The limit would also depend upon previous, old head injuries.
It's like everything else in life. Do your research, and hopefully you make a good decision. If you find something better, trade it in for the better unit. Preferably before you need it's extra performance potential. Other than that, and as always, fly within your means. Identify and observe probable rotor generators and avoid them like the plague. Sometimes that's not possible and you have to deal with those cards with the tools you have. It's good to have a full tool belt. But sometimes that's not enough.

I have to thank you, Chris, for gently reminding us of our frailty, and to be ever vigilant.
Thank you!
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