All things hang gliding. This is the main forum. New users, introduce yourself.

Moderators: sg, mods

And for the record, Saeid is one of the nicest, funniest, most helpful and generous people flying in the Bay Area. Why would ANYONE call him a selfish asshole, unless they were worried about losing control of a really sweet deal for the leaders of a private club....

Paul H wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:09 am
dshman wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:06 am
It’s more concerning that the visitors using the LZ think they have more interest that the owner. Why would they care if the owner gave me permission not there land.
Well looks like I got a invite to ED Levin flight Park. I’m comming to Fly 😱😱😱🤘🤘 you can’t knock my legs out from underneath me I was born for this
Not at all. The real concern is that someone who displays such an anti-social attitude could blow it for everyone.
Paul H wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:35 am
If you truly believe that you can do whatever you like on public land then how about you ride a dirtbike through Ed Levin park. It's public land, isn't that your right?

Riding a dirtbike through Ed Levin Park is not a very good analogy. First the environmental impact of a Hang Glider in flight is minuscule compared to riding a dirtbike through the park. Second and more importantly every citizen of the United States has a declared right of freedom of transit through the navigable airspace of the United States.
Congress wrote:Sec. 104. There is hereby recognized and declared to exist in behalf of any citizen of the United States a public right of freedom of transit through the navigable airspace of the United States. PUBLIC LAW 85-726-AUG. 23, 1958 “Federal Aviation Act of 1958

That declared right is codified in 49 U.S. Code § 40103 - Sovereignty and use of airspace

It is not an issue of doing whatever you like on public land. With regard to regulations, the FAA and the NPS, BLM, etc. have co-jurisdiction in controlling the activities when exercising your declared right to use the airspace.

The central question at hand is the insurance requirement by USHPA controlled sites the exercise of an exclusive right per 49 U.S. Code § 40103(e)? Although the USHPA is a non-profit organization (the principle owner of the RRRG) the insurance company is not non-profit. It would therefore follow that there could be no exclusive rights with regard to any insurance requirements to fly a federal government site.

Be intelligent and inclusive.
SlopeSkimmer wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:04 am
When the USHPA keeps flying sites on public land available to only USHPA pilots they are violating the rights to everyone who would like to try hang gliding including those who may not have the physical ability to fly by themselves.

I hear what you are saying. It also came up recently in the nationwide discussion re bumpstocks. Apparently a physically able person can hold his hand near the trigger in a way that somewhat replicates the action of a bumpstock. But a person with impaired dexterity cannot do that. Banning bumpstocks violates the rights of those physically impaired people to keep and bear and use firearms on an equal basis with everyone else.

It's very much like, the recent ruling requiring an rc plane being flown via first-person-view mode (i.e. via a camera view transmitted down to earth) to always have a spotter who physically has the plane in sight. This ruling hampers the right of those who are legally blind (but may be able to see a computer screen ok if it is six inches in front of their face) to fly rc planes. It's a lot of hassle to arrange to have a spotter.

Just like in national parks and such-- if you don't convert the whole place to pavement, you are violating the right to equal access, of people in wheelchairs. We wouldn't want to do that.

I think some closer analogies would be:

If there was a requirement for everyone going to church (practicing the religion of your choice of course) to carry insurance just in case a handicapped person shows up to church with a bumpstock using the handicap ramp required by law. Is there any question on how the U.S. Supreme would rule?

How about exercising your Civil Rights?

You have to carry insurance before you can vote just in case you have an accident at the polling place.

What if the Republicans (or vis-versa) set up toll roads on all the streets leading to the polling places in the Democrat Districts?

Or a person exercising his Civil Right to testify in court being expelled from an organization providing insurance thus having control of flying sites on government property effectively baring him/her from exercising his right to the public domain airspace.

And further, a person exercising his/her Free Speech and Civil Rights to participate and petition government agencies being expelled from an organization providing insurance thus having control of flying sites on government property effectively baring him/her from exercising his right to the public domain airspace.

Lastly, why on earth would you continue to retain a lawyer who gives you bad legal advice and continues to lose case after case for you?

You’re fired!
magentabluesky wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:06 pm

You have to carry insurance before you can vote just in case you have an accident at the polling place.

We should definitely look in to this as regards voting in national elections-- I might have a car crash in route to my polling place-- and also as regards voting in USHPA elections-- I might break my pinky while typing at my computer keyboard or while trying to put a stamp on my physical ballot--
magentabluesky wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:06 pm
You’re fired!

You guys are awesome on Hang Gliding Dot Org!

There are three good organizations fighting for the rights of all hang gliding pilots, please support one or all of them if you can.

ASC - Aero Sports Connection - http://www.aerosports.org/

AUA - American Ultralight Association http://www.flyul.org/

USHHGA - US Hawks -http://www.http://torreyhawksforum.org.org/

There have been many on the org who think the USHPA is a monopoly, now you have options.
Thank You for making this so crystal clear. I’m behind everything you said and a firm believer we’re on our way back. We learned a good hard lesson and now on high alert to the total lies spouted by USHPA’s leaders and out of touch chapters. There only hope is we’re idiots and we just conform. It’s like watching CNN, they lied so much now you can’t believe a thing they say, no longer trustworthy. I don’t comply to voluntary clubs who attempt illegal activitys to steal my rights, and I sure don’t pay into it, for god sakes I have a backbone. All you guys who supported my post two 👍👍 you see how most faded away once we united and backed each other’s position. Great job let’s learn from this moment and come together when this type of nonsense arises, stay united they want us divided. Proud of the support and thanks for the invite to Fly Ed Levin guys. I’m coming to fly now for sure.
The ASC is nothing new. It has been around awhile. The ASC helped the powered ultralight pilots transition to the Sport Pilot Rules.

When the FAA starts receiving all these requests for exemptions they are going to do just what they said they would do in the Sport Pilot NPRM,
The FAA wrote:“the FAA intends to initiate a separate rulemaking action . . . for . . . the use of hangliders, paraglider and powered paragliders in tandem operations and training.”
The good news is you will get credit for your ultralight experience with ASC, EAA, USUA, and the USHGA. Oh I forgot, Paragliding saved the USHGA and now it is called the USHPA.
The FAA wrote:Certification of Aircraft and Airmen for the Operation of Light-Sport Aircraft

[Docket No. FAA–2001–11133; Amendment No. 1-53; 21-85; 43-39; 45-24; 61-110; 65-45; 91-282]

The FAA received comments suggesting that other organizations not mentioned specifically in the preamble of the proposal should be considered for crediting of ultralight experience. At the time of the NPRM, the FAA stated that it considered only ASC, EAA, and USUA to be FAA-recognized ultralight organizations. One commenter specifically requested that USHGA be considered an FAA-recognized ultralight organization. Some commenters also thought that State associations that have required that ultralight pilots meet their requirements should have been addressed. Both the final rule and the NPRM do not limit those organizations that can be considered as FAA-recognized ultralight organizations. The FAA agrees that USHGA should be considered an FAA-recognized ultralight organization and recognizes it as such. The FAA also recognizes that many State associations have now affiliated themselves with FAA-recognized ultralight organizations. Ultralight pilots in these State associations will be able to become sport pilots using the transition provisions of §61.329, provided they are recognized pilots with one of the four current FAA-recognized ultralight organizations.
I can just say:

Leave Part 103 alone.

Save Part 103 – The Real Crusade to Save Free Flight
Your right ASC is not new, that’s good there established. Now ASC having a Hang glider rating program with a proficiency program with rating cards is completely new, now going to offer a option besides the USHPA program. Your talking about light sport has nothing to do with part 103. Im a FAA authorized LSA repairman, none of light sport has any bearing on 103 your not right.
SUMMARY: This amendment establishes rules governing the operation of ultralight vehicles in the United States. The rule defines ultralight vehicles in two categories: powered and unpowered. To be considered an ultralight vehicle, a hang glider must weigh less than 155 pounds; while a powered vehicle must weigh less than 254 pounds; is limited to 5 U.S. gallons of fuel; must have a maximum speed of not more than 55 knots; and must have a poweroff stall speed of no more than 24 knots. Both powered and unpowered ultralight vehicles are limited to a single occupant. Those vehicles which exceed the above criteria will be considered aircraft for purposes of airworthiness certification and registration, and their operators will be subject to the same certification requirements as are aircraft operators. These rules for ultralight vehicles are needed to achieve an acceptable level of air safety by reducing potential conflict with other airspace users and to provide protection to persons and property on the ground. Now my exemption keeps me from needing to worry about LSA. I know FAA workers they don’t have enough employees to do ramp checks currently and have no interest. They have way bigger problems to deal with right now. If you do the research you’ll see that light sport was really done to keep terrorist from climbing into a trike that could carry 400 extra pounds, besides the pilot and carry some device over a populated area and drop it. Government was concerned about that. FAA’s exact words to me. Not hang gliders or light trikes, there uncapable of hauling that kind of extra weight.
dshman wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:15 pm
... light sport was really done to keep terrorist from climbing into a trike that could carry 400 extra pounds, besides the pilot and carry some device over a populated area and drop it.
Because regs like light sport are of course respected and obeyed by terrorists.

I just wish they had made flying large commercial jet aircraft into skyscrapers illegal back before 9/11. Just think of the lives that could have been saved with just simple regulatory foresight.

Before registration of LSA aircraft like two seaters, a trike could exchange hands without anyone knowing. Now that there’s a registration system, they have more information of who and where these aircraft are.
The same reason the govermeent is seeking to regulate firearms and register them. That would be for tracing down ownership purposes. Why are you so hung up on LSA?again your off track, it has nothing to do with your Hang glider or paraglider, what is your point? Try to scare the uneducated to believe nonsense.
With the exception of Yosemite, and my one Torrey flight, I haven't had to show my USHGA card to fly anywhere in over 20 years. I feel like all I've paid for is a lame magazine. I'm now 3 years USHPA expired and think that means all of my ratings are now revoked. I could not believe membership is now $150. That's NUTS!
I have been thinking the same thing. its a really expensive every other month magazine, with 6 issues a year, disappointing at best. If your interested ASC will renew all old ratings and special skills for $30. Even 3 years expired. Asc has a online magazine and much more.
I’m in sync with your thinking my friend 👍 be informed.
Torrey is no longer has any USHPA influence. Funny all those guys that are loyal to USHPA said it was the place to be, until USHPA was no longer relevant. Now they hate it, what is the element that changed? USHPA and the overbearing clubs can’t control it anymore, they are just average people again, so it’s no good to them now.
Valle De Bravo Flight

It looks like you had some Good Flying. I hope th[…]

Hey Brosig, I hope you don't mind that I hijack[…]

I've applied to join the Facebook FLPHG group. I […]

Hang gliding is one thing, but paragliding is just[…]