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Polling threads

Moderators: sg, mods

What on hanggliding.org is the best for you?

Hang Gliding Videos.
17
18%
Hang Gliding Photos.
No votes
0%
Hang Gliding Site Reports and Site Information.
5
5%
Hang Gliding Flight Reports.
5
5%
Hang Gliding Stories.
8
8%
Hang Gliding History.
2
2%
Hang Glider Product Information.
4
4%
Hang Gliding Events and Happenings.
No votes
0%
Advice for Hang Gliding Pilots, new and old.
34
35%
Hang Gliding Politics and issues.
4
4%
The Campfire / Off Topic Area.
2
2%
Foot Launched Powered Hang Gliding.
3
3%
Other.
12
13%
User avatar
By BubbleBoy
#345807
CAL wrote:once someone is kicked off is there anyway they can get back ? of coarse they would have to tow the line
This is the sort of 'babysitting' request that drives moderators absolutely nuts (I've been one). People want a civil place to hang out, but they don't want an authority making decisions that are final.

Moderation is relatively easy if you (A) run with an iron fist and don't look back. It takes a HUGE amount of time if you try to (B) make everyone happy by analyzing everything and giving everyone chance after chance. Babysitting is the job of a parent, not a moderator.

I'm not saying (B) is impossible, just extremely time consuming. I believe that attempting to do (B) has worn SG down and thus the new upcoming rules (total speculation on my part -- he has not said the above to me).

JB
User avatar
By sg
#345808
Ive been looking for TEMP Ban plugins for the new software. Dont exist. So may need to write some custom code.

I will likely ban with no notice, and the length based on how much trouble you have caused.

Repeat offenders that cause me trouble, and to burn time, will be perma-banned.
Convince me you will always be a problem and time suck for me, and I will perma-ban. That will be the general method.

Again... ask yourself what the manager off Starbucks would do if you came in every weekend and started a ruckus. He'd call the cops and have you escorted out. Id probably judo throw you thru a wall or something cuz im fed up.
User avatar
By red
#345812
BubbleBoy wrote:
red wrote:I would want to see all views allowed, in any thread.
You say that, but then you immediately proceed to contradict that statement with your own words.
Rather than the Original Poster being able to DELETE an off-topic or abusive post, maybe the OP can be allowed to MOVE off-topic posts to a new thread, with an appropriate new title, ...
Allowing the OP to move posts to a new thread and rename thread as he/she sees "appropriate" is NOT "all views allowed in any thread", in fact it will often simply deteriorate into (as peanut points out) a discussion with one viewpoint.
... or even straight to the Basement if the only "discussion" being offered is abuse of the idea or members.
The problem with that is is this: what *I* consider your "abuse of the idea" might just well be an alternate view to mine. We as humans tend to want to get rid of what we don't like.
Allowing me to move your posts to the basement into a thread I appropriately title "Things that are stupid.", is tantamount to your viewpoint simply being deleted. (red, I don't don't think that, and wouldn't do that btw - this is hypothetical)
JB
JB,

I think a reasonable and on-topic post could get moved, sure, sometimes. People will see that, and know who did it, especially if it becomes a habit. A reasonable person could simply re-post their message as their own thread, without rancor, and make their point. Abusive posts could be treated as they are now: consigned to the Basement. While there are always some who will try the patience of everybody, I think a reasonable level of calm will win out here. I sure don't like seeing an entire good thread going down the tubes just because one guy got personal or abusive.

SG,

I like the idea of temporary bans, when somebody steps a little over the line. This is your place, and I think we should act like we are guests in the living room here. The Campfire may get a little bit rowdy at times, and maybe just as well, 8) but that stuff does not need to be on the Index page.

:mrgreen:
User avatar
By BubbleBoy
#345814
red wrote:I think a reasonable and on-topic post could get moved, sure, sometimes. People will see that, and know who did it, especially if it becomes a habit. :
New pilots won't know who did it - they don't have the history on the site.

I'll give you an example:

***Start of fake quotes:

I start a thread titled: "The ultimate thread on what beginners need to know about Speed To Fly theory" and say as an OP: "Speed to fly theory is nonsense and doesn't apply to hang gliders. Beginner XC and Comp pilots need to know this as they are wasting time and money on it."

You say:
How can that be? It's been established science for decades -- by sailplanes well before hang gliders.
I move your post to the thread in the basement I've named "Stupid things Red says".

If I say anything about moving your post I say "Sailplane usage is irrelevant as their performance range is so much higher. And besides, sailplanes are off topic ... this is an HG forum."

You are blocked from posting on the thread.

CAL then says:
If sailplane usage is irrelevant due to higher performance range, how come PG pilots successfully apply STF theory to their flights.
I move CAL's post to the thread in the basement I've named "CAL can't stay on topic".

If I say anything about moving CALs post I say "PG usage is irrelevant as their performance range is so much smaller. And besides, PGs are off topic ... this is an HG forum and a HG thread."

CAL is blocked from posting on the thread.

NME posts:
How can sailplanes and PGs both be irrelevant to the topic based on their performance envelopes when HGs sit right in between them?
I move NME's post to the thread in the basement I've named "NME can't fly worth a hoot and says stupid things".

*****Back to real quotes:
red wrote:A reasonable person could simply re-post their message as their own thread, without rancor, and make their point.


So now, you, CAL and NME (all being reasonable people) start your own threads to make your points, but MY thread still blares out "The ultimate thread on what beginners need to know about Speed To Fly theory.", and you are all three knowledgeable (and correct) people blocked from posting.

If you don't think the above sort of thing could happen, think about how Ryan would have used that feature with his contempt for others and their ability to describe a proper landing. Think of how BobK would have used that feature.

I can assure you that if SG were to implement the "OP can edit the thread" policy, he would spend MORE time reading whiny PMs than he does now.

Unless you want a free for all, moderation is required and self moderation has pretty much proven to be no moderation at all if you want an open exchange of ideas.

JB
User avatar
By Avnav8r
#345815
Hey,

I like so many things about hanggliding.org! Thanks SG! :thumbsup:

John Stokes
#345817
JB,

Then you would have one post, all alone, saying "don't waste your time."

Meanwhile, in another thread, NME, CAL and Red would be conducting their own thread, showing how "Speed To Fly" can relate to advanced flying, with an active participation by new and old pilots.

I believe that most pilots here would see where the action is (by the reply numbers), while one guy is over there, talking to himself. We might still allow the viewpoint that S2F is a "waste of time" from opponents, but it probably will not be a significant part of the discussion. We might have one negative opinion, VS. a ton of information to the contrary.

As long as the entire thread does not land in the Basement, it will be useful. The POLL shows that a lot of pilots come here for information. I think that as a source of information (and the community of sociable HG pilots), we have a good thing growing here.

Alternately, we could continue just as before, but I do not see a bright future, there. Too many good people have been taking their enlightenment elsewhere, lately.

:mrgreen:
User avatar
By sg
#345818
It's a moot point, the software wont do that.
User avatar
By NMERider
#345823
TomGalvin wrote:Better get one while I can....
Stoned again? :lol:
User avatar
By brian scharp
#345824
But I would not feel so all alone.
User avatar
By DAVE858
#345827
There are too many forums on this site & the moderation is terrible. Other than that this is the only convenient place to come for advise & news. The OZreport is even more outdated that this site. I feel that the means with which we choose to communicate as a community are out dated. The majority of soaring communities ecommunications seem to reside in outdated email lists, Google & Yahoo groups & whatnot. Really!?!? Who the f--- still uses that s--- but us??? There are several in Oregon alone. I feel that the .org could be a sanctuary of communication that people would flock to if there were a little better moderation & some site upgrades. I dont like doing this, but basejumper.com has it nailed. We are two separate communities but we are very similar in many ways. The Basejumpers have it nailed as far as convenience of communication goes. Its one place where everyone goes to discuss everything BASE related. Why cant Hang Gliding have this? I feel like the .org could be this place but it is not because it is so poorly moderated & the format is so complex & outdated. Look at why Myspace failed & facebook triumphed. Myspace was too complicated & people wanted an easier more convenient way to communicate. I feel like the .org has an opportunity to become better, but nobody seems to want to do anything about it... Sorry for the long rant, I have had a bit of Cab Franc & am feeling a bit sideways.
By gluesniffer
#345828
Dave858, What's complicated about this site?

You say no one wants to make this site better and the moderator sucks, however I have been reading this thread and a bunch of peeps are suggesting ways to make it better, including the moderator who you think does a crappy job.

This place has a lot to offer. Could it be better? Maybe.. however its not that bad.
I like free speech, like being able to say that people that complain suck :thumbsup:

Thanks sg for the site!
User avatar
By DAVE858
#345829
gluesniffer wrote:Dave858, What's complicated about this site?

You say no one wants to make this site better and the moderator sucks, however I have been reading this thread and a bunch of peeps are suggesting ways to make it better, including the moderator who you think does a crappy job.

This place has a lot to offer. Could it be better? Maybe.. however its not that bad.
I like free speech, like being able to say that people that complain suck :thumbsup:

Thanks sg for the site!
Did you even go to the site I listed & look at the layout?
User avatar
By sg
#345836
This software SUCKS and IS extremely outdated. Ive hated it for a long time.
But by doing so many customization, its made it impossible to migrate.
So a clean sweep is due.

The moderation doesnt suck, the moderation you speak of doesnt exist, it is instead community based, which doesnt work. Thats why 2.0 is switching to actual moderation. The trade off being, the people that scream freedom of speech (which really means freedom to allow anyone to be a complete asshole and ruin the community) wont be around much longer unless they change their ways.
You only get freedom of civil speech on the new site, and if thats too much to ask for, leave now.

There is also little incentive to improve the site considering the amount of time it takes and the reward being so tiny. So the new site will have guest accounts, paid membership accounts, and commercial accounts that will allow for advertising. If enough people decide its value is enough to chip in, then I may spend a lot more time improving the site. People who have donated on their own can ask for equal CREDITS to purchase premium membership accounts, they deserve it the most.

The upgrade is going to move the site to one of the hottest new forum software packages out there, its pretty slick. But people hate change and they will b---- like crazy, but its better, they just will have to give it a chance and get used to it.

I think ill release sooner than later without all the bells and whistles simply because the forum update alone is well worth it.
By blindrodie
#345838
Waiting with baited breath!!!!!!!!!!!!

8)
User avatar
By NMERider
#345839
blindrodie wrote:Waiting with baited breath!!!!!!!!!!!!

8)
Little wonderyou smell like fish! :lol: :P
#345841
red wrote:Alternately, we could continue just as before, but I do not see a bright future, there. Too many good people have been taking their enlightenment elsewhere, lately.
Red, you and I might disagree on the outcome of a particular suggested solution, but we agree that there must be a better way.

Cheers.

JB
User avatar
By Fred Wilson
#345870
Wish I could add to the poll still.

- Share the love of flying and hang gliding, Incident Reports, Classifieds, Free Flight forum (Paragliding Input) + All Above, ...
All these options should have been added - if I had time I would have....
____________________

I would like to see a forum named Women Wing Wings. - A place for female pilots to connect.

(I have never understood why there are not many many more women pilots.
Its a sport of sensitivity and sensation, feel and touch.)

Yeah, it might not get a lot of use at first, but hopefully it would build upon itself.

Women With Wings Associations

Launchettes: For Ladies who Launch.
See: http://www.launchettes.com/

Pilot Profiles: http://www.launchettes.com/profiles/
_______________________

http://www.wings4women.com/
_______________________

Women's Paragliding Association: http://klaudiabulgakow.com/node/259

_______________________

Women With Wings.
Duplicated website at: http://womenwithwingsclinic.blogspot.ca/
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