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Polling threads

Moderators: sg, mods

For those of you who aerotow....

I tow from my shoulders (i.e., 'pro tow')
23
44%
I tow from the carabiner (two-point bridle)
11
21%
I tow from a tow point located on the keel (two-point bridle)
18
35%
User avatar
By Fred Wilson
#337178
Can you add a 50:50 Bridle to the poll?

Hang Gliding - Aero-towing With a 50:50 Bridle

cc at: http://hangies.co.uk/videos/view/_838

Dan Hamblin http://www.youtube.com/user/MorphFX?feature=watch writes:
Recent amendments to aerotowing procedures in the UK require gliders of certain aspect ratios to be towed with a 50:50 bridle and trolley launched only.
The AirBorne Sting 3:168, with an aspect ratio of 5.7, falls into this category.
This is my first aerotow in this configuration.
Thanks to Stewart and Cathy of Flylight Airsports Ltd for taking the time out to set-up the glider and get me up in the air again!

Information re the new aerotow amendments (as per Nicos' comment below)
See: http://www.morphfx.co.uk/hang-gliding/d ... =15Mar2013

NB: Please note, this is NOT the official information - please check with the BHPA for the latest information. See: http://www.bhpa.co.uk/documents/

[youtube]
[/youtube]
User avatar
By boarini2003
#337179
It really depends on the type of glider you're towing.
User avatar
By Darbbb
#337181
Fred, the configuration in the video appears to fall under Option #2 above.

Brad
User avatar
By Fred Wilson
#337185
I wonder... I think it is #3,
- or we need a #4...
- because the 50:50 attaches on the keel - as far forward as you can without opening the zipper.
___________________

So then: can you add 50:50 Bridle to the wording in #3? Or whatever is correct.

If Britain has made this mandatory, lots of other Euro countries will have too.
So 50:50 Bridle is the terminology they will understand, and there are heaps of them here on the .org
Tnx!!! This thread is a :goodidea:
Last edited by Fred Wilson on Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Darbbb
#337189
Fred Wilson wrote:Then can you add 50:50 Bridle to the wording in #2?

If Britain has made this mandatory, lots of other Euro countries will have too.
So 50:50 Bridle is the terminology they will understand, and there are heaps of them here on the .org
Tnx!!! This thread is a :goodidea:
Sorry, Fred, doesn't look like I can edit the poll at this point.
User avatar
By Fred Wilson
#337192
FYI: Descriptive information on the 50:50 Bridal

See: http://www.morphfx.co.uk/hang-gliding/d ... e=2May2013

"This is a very much improved 50:50 bridle to that that I’d seen before.
Gone is the bike brake release which was now replaced with a simple loop that wraps around the pilots wrist.
This would make it very easy to operate the release. As a back-up, a barrel release is used on the bottom end of the towing threader.

One of the things to experiment with was the upper tow point location on the keel.
Airborne had advised me to locate it as far forward on the keel without having to open the under surface zip.
On my glider, this wasn’t much further than 1 inch forward of the king post
– this would be something to look at if I again experienced high bar pressures."

Cont... with pics
_______________________

From: http://www.bhpa.co.uk/documents/safety/safety_advisory/

See decade old... (2004)
BHPA SAFETY ADVISORY 007 [11/2004] Hang Glider Aerotowing: Foot Launch with a 50/50 bridle
http://www.bhpa.co.uk/pdf/safety_adviso ... 112004.pdf
User avatar
By dievhart
#337194
Depends on glider being towed.
You might add some text to your options next time....
1. Shoulders ONLY
2. Beener AND SHOULDERS.
3. Keel AND SHOULDERS.
Diev
Last edited by dievhart on Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By lostgriz
#337195
I currently protow. I started 3 point from the keel on a single surface and moved to 3 point from the carabiner when I got my U2. Moved to protow just after getting my Covert.

Matt
User avatar
By JohnC
#337199
lostgriz wrote:I currently protow. I started 3 point from the keel on a single surface and moved to 3 point from the carabiner when I got my U2. Moved to protow just after getting my Covert.

Matt
Matt, what differences did you notice? Much change in bar pressure? Anything else?

I'm thinking of making a similar move myself (for towing the C2) - it has been suggested that it may provide an increase in roll authority.
User avatar
By MorphFX
#337204
Hi guys,

The articles linked above are down to me. It's an interesting time in the UK regarding aerotowing as there is quite a bit going on with deregulation of tugs. At the moment there is very few options with regard to what tugs we can tow with. In general, the tugs we use are generally pretty fast compared to a flex wing hang glider which can make aerotowing a bit of a challenge on some flex wings. This was the main reason for the recent aerotow amendments, matching the glider to the tug speed.

Regarding the towing method in the video, what we call a 50:50 bridle, the top attachment is indeed on the keel. The other end attaches to the pilot's harness just below the shoulders. The threader connects between the two attachment points. On the threader is a steel ring that freely runs on the threader. The tug towline is connected to that steel ring. There are releases at the keel end and pilot end of the threader.

I hope that makes things clearer.
User avatar
By Darbbb
#337207
I think there is some confusion of terms here, as I have found other places as well. A two-point or V-bridle connects at the shoulders, runs through the tow rope, and connects up top to a release at either a tow point or the biner. This would also be the "50-50" bridle, though I never heard that term before today. Or you might be towing off the shoulders only, with no connection to either a tow point or the biner, and release is via the barrel. This is also known as "pro towing."

I hope that clears it up.
User avatar
By Fred Wilson
#337219
SG:
Could you edit the poll above into a list of his chosing?

Secondly:
This would be a good one to replace my old .org Cross Country Fly In Poll on the Home Page:
- at least for the short term.

The Government of Canada quashed my application for a special NOTAM'd Airspace block that would allow foreign pilots to fly XC here in Canada
- without having to write Transport Canada's Hang Gliding Air Regulations Exam ahead of time.

--- so if we do do a .org Cross Country Fly In its gonna have to be in the States... and that might take some doing.

Chatteroyman... ya listening? I jest might be a comin at ya on this one! :lol:
- Bring EVERYONE on the .org to Spokane for a Fly-In. Meet all your buds here face to face. Serious, serious Party Time. :owned: :goodidea: :welcome:
:yay:
User avatar
By dievhart
#337254
MorphFX wrote:Hi guys,.... On the threader is a steel ring that freely runs on the threader.........
That is what I have used/seen here also...
But I have also been told this is a bad idea as the ring can come back and hit the pilot in the face/teeth if the tow line snaps (the knot on the steel ring will wear on the ground if not protected (plastic bottle top works great))....wear safety glasses and full face helmets...
Anyone use anything different or have a better idea?
Diev
User avatar
By CHassan
#337261
I had might have had a dozen or so tows with the keel bridle. I tried the "pro-tow" method and it just felt better to me. I know by all accounts having a keel point attachment is the easier way to tow. If properly set up the keel point will reduce bar pressure on tow to nothing. A much more relaxed and simple tow
.
Towing from just the shoulders YOU have to do all the pulling in. On lower performance gliders this can be a handful in itself. Higher performance gliders have less bar pressure over all, so it is not as big a deal. Of course to get that lower bar pressure you have to add VG. Adding VG makes the glider stiffer in roll and more prone to PIO.
User avatar
By Darbbb
#337262
CHassan wrote:I had might have had a dozen or so tows with the keel bridle. I tried the "pro-tow" method and it just felt better to me. I know by all accounts having a keel point attachment is the easier way to tow. If properly set up the keel point will reduce bar pressure on tow to nothing. A much more relaxed and simple tow
.
Towing from just the shoulders YOU have to do all the pulling in. On lower performance gliders this can be a handful in itself. Higher performance gliders have less bar pressure over all, so it is not as big a deal. Of course to get that lower bar pressure you have to add VG. Adding VG makes the glider stiffer in roll and more prone to PIO.
According to Wills Wing, adding VG makes the glider less prone to PIO.
User avatar
By CHassan
#337267
On gliders equipped with variable geometry, using a tighter VG setting will measurably reduce the glider's roll sensitivity, and reduce the tendency to oscillate.
I'll be damned they do!

Perhaps I associate the increase in PIO tendency with tight VG with the fact I'm flying much faster when using tighter VG. Increase speed increase PIO tendency.

Or maybe I don't know my s--- from Shinola.
User avatar
By Darbbb
#337323
Thanks for the replies. I am surprised that relatively few people tow from the carabiner.
User avatar
By flyin_canuck
#337330
with all the different gliders out there why would it surprise you that everyone doesn't do it the same

I thought the mfg's suggest the best point along the keel and the lower performance a glider the closer to the nose, the higher perfomance the closer to the hang point and for top performance just off the harness if fine

isn't attaching to the carabiner just one step closer to using only harness attachment from a harness/keel at hang point setup

I would think with all the different gliders towing from the harness and carabiner would be the least used setup
User avatar
By Darbbb
#337332
flyin_canuck wrote:with all the different gliders out there why would it surprise you that everyone doesn't do it the same

I thought the mfg's suggest the best point along the keel and the lower performance a glider the closer to the nose, the higher perfomance the closer to the hang point and for top performance just off the harness if fine

isn't attaching to the carabiner just one step closer to using only harness attachment from a harness/keel at hang point setup

I would think with all the different gliders towing from the harness and carabiner would be the least used setup
I never said I was surprised that "everyone doesn't do it the same"

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