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Polling threads

Moderators: sg, mods

Should the more experienced pilot feel comfortable and willing to critique others flying practices?

Yes, but please do so without making me look stupid.
45
90%
No, I just want to hear it from my flying buddies not you!
No votes
0%
Hay, we just want to continue what we do without your constant advise!
2
4%
If you think I can do something better send me a PM
3
6%
By blindrodie
#325176
I always tend to offer advice that would/could/might/should help a pilot have a better experience. Seems this is not too popular and that some feel I/we should continue to accept what I call poor practices, in my own humble opinion. I understand this position but do not except it. I know it's not my job but sometimes I feel I can help out.

8)
Last edited by blindrodie on Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By slimchance
#325177
I voted "Yes, but please dont make me look stupid!"

Im already stupid so.........

Tim
User avatar
By 1htalp9
#325186
Too late, you already look stupid... the word is "advice". :oops:
User avatar
By Felix
#325187
Critique IF the pilot in question asked for help/ideas. Critique IF you are an instructor or accomplished pilot (somewhat of a professional) - not just a pilot that THINKS he/she knows it all. That's where the problem comes in - a website based forum with 1000 voices all thinking they are correct (most of whom are not) is NOT a good way to learn - for learning we all should talk to a instructor or eminent pilot.

I am personally done with taking flying advice from a forum, though I find it entertaining to read - however I find this site as a great resource for all other HG needs (classifieds, contacts, videos, pics, etc).
Not trying to insult anyone, there are a few guys here that will be right and correct (like Red and couple others), but in general...not a good place to take flying advice.
My 2c.
User avatar
By DAVE858
#325188
I put yes but dont make me look stupid, but lets face the facts. Some poeple do stupid s--- & post it on Youtube & then get offended when they are sanctioned by the community. Unfortunately I am at work where Youtube is forbidden or I would post several instances of exactly this scenario. I feel it is more prevailent in the BASE & Skydiving communities.
By blindrodie
#325199
Too late, you already look stupid... the word is "advice"
Thanks for the correction. However misspelled words hardly make me look stupid and don't embarrass me. It's all the poor technique that I observe, followed by sophomoric remarks that's embarrassing. But to each his/her own... :twisted:

8)
User avatar
By ChattaroyMan
#325213
Yes .... we all can be better pilots. Our lives are on the line. The better/safer we fly the longer we also keep flying sites. I welcome advice/critiques and sometimes offer it/them. We're a relatively small sport. Good communication between us all helps to further our experience and leads to innovations + the identification of hazards. I've learned bunches here even when lurking. Like making sure I have spell checking on .... :wink:
User avatar
By 1htalp9
#325234
blindrodie wrote:
Too late, you already look stupid... the word is "advice"
Thanks for the correction. However misspelled words hardly make me look stupid and don't embarrass me. It's all the poor technique that I observe, followed by sophomoric remarks that's embarrassing. But to each his/her own... :twisted:

8)
Just yanking your chain, dude... not trying to be offensive... actually, I thought you were just channeling Noman for fun.
By redtail
#325238
I would have to say "yes" also. This sport may not teach you spelling,
but will learn you a thing or two about humility as you survive it.
mike
User avatar
By Eteamjack
#325250
If pilot solicits it. Just to add statements to stir things up or make your self look like ACP material is wrong.
User avatar
By tom emery
#325289
Been hang gliding about a year now. I will take advice from anyone, anytime, about any aspect of my flying. If someone "sees" something I don't, I want to know. Usually even marginal advice has a kernel of useful information.
I figure that everyone is a student...and instructor.
About looking stupid...only if you keep repeating the same mistake.
By Phoenix
#325313
tom emery wrote:Been hang gliding about a year now. I will take advice from anyone, anytime, about any aspect of my flying. If someone "sees" something I don't, I want to know. Usually even marginal advice has a kernel of useful information.

I figure that everyone is a student...and instructor.
About looking stupid...only if you keep repeating the same mistake.
Outstanding, we ALL learn in different ways. Based in terms of our experience.
Personally, having been involved in a large club in the boom years, I may on occasion have some insight.

Having been a volunteer observer, NOT for the status, NOT because I wanted to
dominate, but simply to pay forward, what I could never pay back.

Sometimes I can not be very articulate, I do not inspire confidence in people,
and have often had to listen to those who wish to demean me while elevating
their own situation.

I don't need that to spill over into my working and social life,
and I could certainly talk about how it has done so, but not without the snarky,
half baked voices of a thousand titanic twits.

As a LIFE long fan of the sport, the across the pond evolution of it in the 70s,
the boom years, a long absence trying to find other parts of the dreams they put
in my head, should I NOT be allowed to participate in the community having known the best and worst of it?

Seems I read all about John Coulter, but by the time I'd been there those ways of
life were long gone. But in my time, I'm glad I got there before they painted the
Fountain Bleu green (Neil Young of course).

I just know I learned about this sport from some of the best, if I can be helpful
fine, if not piss off.
User avatar
By Nicos
#325397
I've been flying for about 7 years and always want to remain a student. I want critique!

And thanks to those who do offer advice.
User avatar
By cold wombat
#325423
For those who do offer critique (and I believe that is mostly a *good thing*), the benefit is sometimes missed because of the delivery style. FWIW, the "kiss, punch, kiss" method tends to overcome this; ie, say what was good (kiss), what needs to be improved (punch), then a positive finish (kiss). Works wonders at delivering the slap without wounding the ego too much.
User avatar
By CAL
#325443
i was flying with Jeff O'Brien, a WW Comp pilot, though he was a very accomplished pilot and I might add Instructor, when I asked him a question he would always give advice and say that's just my Opinion,

we as pilots should take it upon ourselves the responsibility to know what good advice is and what isn't, I like to hear advice on every level, I have learned from pilots that just got into the sport to the Ryan Voight's and Jeff OB's
So calling all pilots to give there Opinions on all levels don't think for one minute that any Pilot couldn't give good advice, we just need to be able to distinguish what is good advice or Opinions, I have also gave my opinion and have been corrected, had I not give my opinion I would have not been corrected, it is all a learning process

I will always try to give my opinion and workout pilots problems and listen to what advice others give, Example,a pilot has a hard landing, I will ask if he or she knows why, then working with that pilot come up with a solution to the problem, they may all ready know what they did wrong, if not they will have the opportunity to play it out in their mind

working together with other pilots with our two minds together we can correct their problems and may even lead to not making the same mistake ourselves

most of us know what to do, we just aren't on our game all the time, know one should ever feel stupid or make anyone think they are, no one should ever be arrogant enough to think they are above making mistakes and think others are the only one that does
User avatar
By NMERider
#325445
To me 'critique' is a word that has no place in the world of hang gliding. This isn't an academic setting where we want our dissertations read and reviewed. This is sport with a very high probability of getting injured or killed but we keep coming back for more because there is really nothing else quite like it in this mortal sphere.

In my opinion what pilots seem want but don't always come right out and ask is:
1a - Encouragement
2a - Mentoring
3a - Objective observations

On the flip side what pilots resent but don't often say so is:
1b - Criticism
2b - Bragging
3b - Bullshit

Each (a) item matches the (b) item on the two lists.

If a pilot is in over his head it is usually more effective to offer encouragement to shift to safer practices rather than criticize against the pilot for what he was allegedly doing wrong.

When a pilot is seeking leadership or coaching it is usually a lot more effective to offer mentoring than to boast about how easy it is for you and how great you are.

When a pilot is unsure of what is going wrong (or right) he will probably improve more when offered objective observations rather than pulling opinions out of your butt and stating this as fact.

It is painfully easy for anyone among us to fall into the (b) list. I know that I have done it all too often and it is human nature to act this way. It takes strength of character to turn our urge to criticize into something constructive. It may requite a sales pitch or words of encouragement.

I will never claim that it's easy to offer words in way that results in others being and becoming better and safer pilots. It goes against human nature and is a product of culture. It takes commitment and practice just like flying does. If anything it takes more work and effort to be an effective writer or speaker who is a positive and constructive influence on his fellow pilot. It can be done and one can be tough as nails and absolutely firm in stopping unsafe conduct while being encouraging, coaching and objective at then same time.

None of this is about being "nice". This is about instilling safe habits and skills in our fellow pilot. One can be very firm and assertive without being critical or negative. Like I said, it takes a lot of commitment and practice to develop this art. Just look at the great coaches of sports throughout history and see who had the most impact on his/her team and players.
User avatar
By mrflyn4fun
#325459
I have been flying a long time, 36 yrs. I voted for Don't make me look stupid. I am not stupid. I have never screwed up a launch (since my training days). BUT, last Friday on my first launch this year, as I began my takeoff run in a 12-15 mph straight in wind, the wing began a definite drift to the side, well off the intended path. Not hard to correct, and everything came out fine.
When reviewing the video, I was greatly surprised at how high my AOA was beginning the run. Without the video I would probably still be scratching my head, or other body parts, wondering why this happened. I wish one of the 2 pilots assisting had said something! I am sure at least one of them should have noticed.
I feel that being away from the mountain for 7 or 8 months and failure to prioritize my focus were the main contributors to a less-than-perfect launch.
My point (if there is one) is that ANYBODY can screw up. ANYBODY should be receptive to qualified advice! Sometimes you will feel stupid, as I did after reviewing that video. I know better. I NEVER screw up launching. But I ALMOST did! And if you are qualified, I will always listen to what you have to say. But don't make me look stupid (I generally take care of that myself!) :wink:

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