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Polling threads

Moderators: sg, mods

Should USHPA Regional Directors' votes be individually recorded and easily available for USHPA members to review?

yes
58
84%
no
8
12%
undecided
3
4%
User avatar
By BubbleBoy
#296716
AIRTHUG wrote:Votes aren't NOT recorded because directors are trying to hide their actions or anything like that... there are simply too many directors, too many votes, and not enough time to record who voted which way.
As a guy who was involved in the USHGA for many years and who was Chairman of the biggest and busies (by far) committee in the organization I can tell everyone that Ryan is absolutely full of craaaaaaaap in the above.

While I was Chair, we knew and recorded who voted what every time (unless the members voted on and got an issue taken to a private vote -- unusual in my committee). If it slowed us down 5 minutes in the course of an entire weekend I'd be surprised.

Don't buy the "no time" BS.

JB
User avatar
By red
#296728
BubbleBoy wrote:
AIRTHUG wrote:Votes aren't NOT recorded because directors are trying to hide their actions or anything like that... there are simply too many directors, too many votes, and not enough time to record who voted which way.
As a guy who was involved in the USHGA for many years and who was Chairman of the biggest and busies (by far) committee in the organization I can tell everyone that Ryan is absolutely full of craaaaaaaap in the above.
While I was Chair, we knew and recorded who voted what every time (unless the members voted on and got an issue taken to a private vote -- unusual in my committee). If it slowed us down 5 minutes in the course of an entire weekend I'd be surprised.
Don't buy the "no time" BS.
JB
Campers,

I agree with JB. They passed a motion lately to "outlaw" any video recording equipment at the voting, which seems to be a determined effort to conceal the voting records of those voting, from the membership. Almost everybody has a video camera (or a phone that can take video) these days, and a video record (or several) would certainly not slow anything down. It would record the voting, though, and insure accuracy better than a fast count of the hands. I believe this is exactly what the video ban was intended to prevent. Ryan also said this about our poll, and I agree, there:
AIRTHUG wrote: I'm not undecided... and I'm adamantly against voting NO (I agree voting should be transparent)... So then if I were going to vote it'd have to be YES.
Both my RD (Ryan Voight) and I are on the record as wanting open voting, and public voting records of those voting, for any part of club business. Let's see a public vote by the REPRESENTATIVES of the membership on this issue. Send your RD an email, expressing your opinion either way, but do not neglect this problem.

If an RD votes against the desires of their membership, you should know that, IMHO. Read the platforms of those running for USHPA positions, in this month's magazine.

:mrgreen:
User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#296768
I've missed you Bubbles. Where ya been?
By miguel
#296774
Ryan, the reasons you have given us are kind of like "the dog ate my homework".

Give us some compelling reasons for the secrecy.

TIA
User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#296781
Failure to widely share voting results is not the same as secrecy. Voting results aren't a secret... anyone attending a meeting can see people voting all day long. If you want to know how someone voted, ask.

If you don't trust your RD... then that is a different issue... and if that is the case you can elect someone else.

Again- I am not at all opposed to sharing voting results. I agree it is something we should be doing. Notice above I call it a failure. I however have not heard or found a solution that works for our organization. I keep saying attend a meeting because you will understand what I mean...

JB's comments about recording votes within his committee are good, but a committee is a smaller group of people, working on a specific task. Less heads, less votes, less stuff to vote on. Nothing actually gets implemented within a committee, so it's kind of useless to record those votes. In general session we review the results from the committee meetings and vote to accept or not. These are the votes that should be recorded, and these are the votes that are difficult to record because it's a room full of people, and we move quickly from one vote to another to another... general session always runs way long as it is...

Anyone on this thread from NY, please attend the upcoming meeting! :surrender:
User avatar
By NMERider
#296784
AIRTHUG wrote:....Anyone on this thread from NY, please attend the upcoming meeting! :surrender:
:ditto: That would be great to have an independent voice from an Org member. Someone who is not involved in HG politics or administration. :goodidea:

It would be interesting to hear about the culture of the directors meetings from someone who is just an observer. :thumbsup:
User avatar
By pmurdoch
#296801
If you want to know how your RD voted, ask them.

If you don't believe them, vote for someone else.

If no one else is available, run for office yourself.

If you don't get elected, then others don't agree with you. You are in the minority, and that is how organizations work.

If you still want to know go to the meeting yourself. Seriously, a conspiracy theorist can find suspicious activity in a bowl of cheetos. But don't sit on your ass at home, and demand that those volunteering on your behalf do more.
By blindrodie
#296816
If you don't trust your RD... then that is a different issue... and if that is the case you can elect someone else.
For me this has nothing to do with trust. If I vote for an RD I would never expect them to vote the way I want. I would expect them to vote for what they felt was the best solution to an issue as that's their job as an RD. It's not mine.

So I want the vote to be transparent so that I can 1) voice my opinion to that RD that I voted for and 2) Reelect them or vote them out.

RD's as a volunteer job DO NOT deserve to be called on to get their vote. It should be an obtainable record for members to then make a voters choice.

8)
Former Reg 6 RD
User avatar
By pmurdoch
#296818
It is an unfunded mandate.

In order to do this, the RDs will have to do more work to record their votes or USHPA will need to hire someone to record them. The only alternative is for USHPA to purchase a voting system which tabulates and records each vote.

In any event, recording the data requires resources. This forum has been pretty vocal against dues increases, so where would the resources for this come from?
By soarhead
#296820
I'll bet theres a former RD from region 3 who would volunteer to keep the record free of charge.
User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#296821
Isn't he running again? Vote for him... Just don't recall him if he gets elected! :lol:
User avatar
By pmurdoch
#296822
In that scenario, it might be 'free of charge' but it wouldn't be without cost.
User avatar
By NMERider
#296833
AIRTHUG wrote:...TEST: www.cesspoolforum.com

EDIT: Actually... that one appears to be true :rofl:
What's funny is that the cesspoolforum.com domain is available. I'm surprised it hasn't been purchased and used for a redirect. What funnier is that your post has the working actual link to that other site embedded. Others have posted the link and it went to the dead url instead. Go figure?

I hope we get an independent observer to show up at that New York meeting and report their observations. You better mind your P's and Q's now!
User avatar
By sg
#296849
soarhead wrote:I'll bet theres a former RD from region 3 who would volunteer to keep the record free of charge.
Aliases are not allowed rebardan
User avatar
By sg
#296853
Keep Bob and his crap off this site.
He keeps trying to get people to link to his crap.

If you proxy for Bob, you will be asked to leave.

Bob for RD again? Yeah, vote for the guy who sent me a PM to change everyones votes in the HGAA chairman election. Then blatantly lies that I committed voter fraud for putting him on the ballot WHEN HE ASKED ME TO. :crazy:

Bob is the only RD who has ever been recalled. He's been shut out by USHPA, the Oz report, the torrey soaring council, the Sylmar forum, and the org. Pretty much anyone who deals with him for any length of time turns on him. Its a pattern. My way or the highway Bob is not capable of working with anyone. He consistently flips out if everyone doesnt vote for exactly what he wants.

That is what you want in an RD? People are funny.

End the Bob crap now. He is absolute poison to this sport. Threads about him , or links to him in any way will be deleted.

No commentary necessary. I have no interest in debating this or taking part in this discussion. This thread will be locked if the Bob crap continues.
Last edited by sg on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By NMERider
#296856
sg wrote:....This thread will be locked if the Bob crap continues.
Nyah! No more of dis Bird crap. It's like dis all yous pigeons...
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User avatar
By sam kellner
#296858
pmurdoch wrote:In that scenario, it might be 'free of charge' but it wouldn't be without cost.
Maybe so for those USHPA executives who refused to hear his motion on open voting, in 2008?, but for the overall membership, largely cost effective. :)
User avatar
By pmurdoch
#296860
SG,

I don't think there was much support for he-who-must-not-be-named in the previous dialog. In fact, it was the opposite.

But I have to say, this bit
sg wrote:Threads about him , or links to him in any way will be deleted.

No commentary necessary. I have no interest in debating this or taking part in this discussion. This thread will be locked if the Bob crap continues.
is all the more ironic when followed by this bit:

"Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
User avatar
By sg
#296861
I told you I didnt want to discuss this.

There is nothing ironic about the Jefferson quote. His quote is about government. This is a private forum and my private property. Now if I was the Obama administration, you would have a point.

But im allowed to set the rules in my home and the rules are: no Bob *BULLSHIT* here. I wouldnt complain if one of my religious friends asked me to leave if I kept preaching atheism in his home every time I came over either. He sets the house rules and I respect them. His home is NOT a public square.

Now go b---- to Obama for signing indefinite detention into law, then aggressively fighting in to court (4th appeal now?) to keep his new powers, extending the patriot act, fighting for warrantless GPS tracking of citizens, killing an american citizen (and likely terrorist) with NO due process, and now fighting for warrantless tracking of citizens via their cell phones, in court.
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