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Polling threads

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Should USHPA Regional Directors' votes be individually recorded and easily available for USHPA members to review?

yes
58
84%
no
8
12%
undecided
3
4%
User avatar
By sam kellner
#296508
Before voting for your choice of regional Director, you might ask.
At this time, USHPA does not record how the Directors vote on important issues.
User avatar
By Davedebogusone
#296529
OK so 2 vote no.
Would love to hear the explanation for why ? :crazy:
User avatar
By flyin_canuck
#296534
What problem is this solving that couldn't be solved better just by each region having a good relationship with their RD and electing RD's that they know and trust

I understand wanting to know how RD's vote, but pushing this does not seem to be the best way to achieve that
User avatar
By Davedebogusone
#296540
Pfft
And how do you know the guy, you think you know ,voted like he said and didnt go along for another reason ?

Why should we have to guess,
Besides if something gets through and it wasnt our RD we would know who to b---- at.
Why the fear of accountability ? :mrgreen:

Where in the hell did the observers go ? :cuss:
I understand wanting to know how RD's vote, but pushing this does not seem to be the best way to achieve that

And How else would you propose ?
I say put on the ballot for all of us to have a say on the next RD ballot.
Could put in on the USHPA web site as a poll in the members section as well
By old newbie
#296543
I just ask mine if I am curious how he voted. I also feel free to tell him my feelings on agenda items and how I would want him to vote.

Steve
User avatar
By Andrew Vanis
#296544
flyin_canuck wrote:each region having a good relationship with their RD and electing RD's that they know and trust
if its a 100% voting landslide this may be true. if the vote splits at all, there might be some folks that my not have this relationship
flyin_canuck wrote:I understand wanting to know how RD's vote, but pushing this does not seem to be the best way to achieve that
What would be the best way?
User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#296545
I didn't vote in the above poll, but would like to state for a matter of record:

Votes aren't NOT recorded because directors are trying to hide their actions or anything like that... there are simply too many directors, too many votes, and not enough time to record who voted which way.

It's kind of irrelevant, because after so much discussion, the vast majority of votes are unanimous. It's rare for a vote to occur before the pro's and con's of whatever topic has been discussed ad nauseam.

The meetings are open... you want to see how sneaky the board is, come to a meeting. The only thing devious is the order we display our poker hands at night.

Oh- and as for this being a representative system... it doesn't work when we don't get feedback from our region. The fall board meeting is rapidly approaching, and I have yet to hear from a SINGLE person in region 4 about anything on the agenda. If you care about topics enough to want to know how your director is voting... you should care enough to contact them and share your feelings. Keep in mind that you are but one opinion in a rather large region, so reaching out doesn't mean your director will vote that way... but you can ask how they feel on the subject, you can discuss both sides of it. You get your best chance to influence the voting BEFORE the meeting... not by reading how people voted after the fact...
User avatar
By Davedebogusone
#296555
And according to this poll by a large margin say we want to know .
You have access to the database of your constituents, do you let them know whats comming up ? Or maybe what they think on this matter ? :twisted:
Crestline is running the same poll

26 so far 100% yes :mrgreen:
User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#296564
Did you really need a poll to get these results? Or, better question, do you actually want to know how people feel? Poll options point to no...

Poll options are YES, NO, or UNDECIDED.

Take me for example: I'm not undecided... and I'm adamantly against voting NO (I agree voting should be transparent)... So then if I were going to vote it'd have to be YES. But I also understand the WHY behind why votes aren't currently recorded and publicized... which is why I did not vote.

Perhaps the option to vote YES, WHEN PRACTICAL TO DO SO or something like that? There are just so many votes per session, and many sessions per meeting... and there's really not enough time to discuss everything as it is. I know it sounds easy to just go around the room and write down who voted which way... but a min or two each vote quickly adds up, and there is just so much to discuss it isn't practical.

If we were a wealthier organization, we could afford some form of electronic voting or something like that.... but this is HG/PG.

The question I would pose is, AT WHAT COST DO PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW HOW EACH BOARD MEMBER VOTED? How much of the organization's measiy budget is it worth to it's members? Would people be willing to accept a dues increase to support this effort?

It's not a question of if the board is willing to publicize their voting... it's a matter of practicality. Attend a meeting and you'll see what I mean... we vote on EVERYTHING... all day long.... yeesh!
User avatar
By tom emery
#296589
Thanks Ryan for at least posting on the voter transparancy issue. Being new to the orginization I don't understand why it isn't common practice already. Doesn't the orginization have a secretary somewhere? What's the big deal? Yes to the question of a bump in dues if need be.[/b]
User avatar
By Dan Harding
#296594
No, to the question of a bump in dues !!! I've seen the dues rise for 30 years to the point they are now, along with more rules and regulations.
User avatar
By ChattaroyMan
#296597
There are all sorts of quick clicker polling/voting devices that tally up votes. They are not all that expensive and they save a lot of time. Some even interface with smart phones. I suspect a clicker system would be very useful at a USHPA board meeting - results being tabulated instantly and could be fed into a spread sheet or PowerPoint doc that could then be displayed on a screen via a projector - with all results saved as needed/required.
User avatar
By remmoore
#296620
JFC - its not that hard!

Print out a 2-3 word title summary for each item to be voted on, and number them sequentially - along with a yes/no box next to each item. Make copies, and hand them out at the meeting. Have each voter check the appropriate box as they vote, sign it, then hand in the paper at the end of the meeting.

I can't believe the organization wouldn't want a record and documentation of who voted how. It's easier for the voters - it could even be sent out in advance, and filled in at their leisure. Plus, it give the organization some small measure of accountability.

Frankly, the voting record issue doesn't ring my bell, but the solution is so pathetically simple - it starts to smell fishy when lame excuses are given not to do it.

RM
User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#296622
Dan Harding wrote:No, to the question of a bump in dues !!! I've seen the dues rise for 30 years to the point they are now, along with more rules and regulations.
Getting :offtopic:

But I've seen the price of gas, milk, electricity, BACON... increase for 30 years to the point they are now. What's your point?
User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#296625
remmoore wrote: Frankly, the voting record issue doesn't ring my bell, but the solution is so pathetically simple - it starts to smell fishy when lame excuses are given not to do it.
Would you trust an auto mechanic to fix your car without ever seeing it? A doctor to diagnose you without ever meeting you? An instructor to give you something to improve without ever seeing you fly?

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but yea, it SOUNDS easy... on an internet forum. Come to some meetings and see how quickly we move and vote from topic to topic (often we don't know what we'll be voting on until a motion is made and a vote is raised).

An electronic system would work, but it costs $. And it's money to fix a "problem" more than a PROBLEM. I pray for the day when the sport is so sound that our pressing business is discussing how to be more transparent. I absolutely agree it is important... but more important than safety issues? More important than competition issues? More important than INSURANCE issues?

We're volunteer people in a volunteer organization, where the individuals AND the organization have very limited resources, and we do the best we can putting out fires as they pop up, and prioritizing the big ticket items.

If this is a big ticket item for anyone here, please relay that to your RD... again, this poll proves nothing- we agree it should be more transparent.... it's the HOW that hasn't been developed.

Please, if you get the opportunity to attend a meeting, this will all make more sense...
User avatar
By remmoore
#296637
Look - people have been recording meeting results since the dawn of man. This isn't surgery, auto mechanics, or flight instruction - it's stuff any mid-level professional knows how to do, and has been doing their entire career.

I've been involved in plenty of nonprofit organizations, and had little old ladies doing this stuff. There are plenty of ways to do it - that don't include expensive devices. You're comment about meetings being fast-paced is even more reason for voting records - not less.

Are voting records more important that actual agenda items? Not a valid question. It's like asking if we should choose between conducting business with the lights turned on or off, or whether there should be oxygen in the room - it's part of conducting such business. If you're gonna do it, do it right.

RM
User avatar
By sam kellner
#296672
AIRTHUG wrote: Would people be willing to accept a dues increase to support this effort?!
AIRTHUG wrote:The only thing devious is the order we display our poker hands at night.


Rather than threaten the membership with higher dues, perhaps you could devote a few more minutes of time while at the spring and fall meetings, since you make your living off the sport.

Besides, the dues increase is already on the fall meeting, Oct 18, agenda.
User avatar
By AIRTHUG
#296689
sam kellner wrote: Rather than threaten the membership with higher dues, perhaps you could devote a few more minutes of time while at the spring and fall meetings
You misunderstand. I was not threatening a dues increase... in the context of my post, I was making a point that people say they want things really bad... but if you ask "are you willing to pay for it" the answer is usually NO!. I apologize if my point was ill made.
sam kellner wrote:since you make your living off the sport.
Ah yes, my favorite line. I apologize in advance for what is coming next...

That is a hot button line for me. The logic of "you eat breathe and sleep hang gliding, volunteer your time when you're not working in the sport, voluntarily spend time trying to help people advance by sharing on forums like this, you've worked to develop a new harness option for recreational pilots, you volunteer to help share/grow the sport at national trade shows, you give away your video footage (taken with thousands of dollars of equipment, paid for out of my own pocket) to news and television channels- just to show hang gliding in a positive light in the media... therefore you should put in a little more time and effort"

f--- off. Why don't you step up and do it, rather than telling me or others what we should be doing :surrender:
User avatar
By NMERider
#296690
AIRTHUG wrote:...f*** off. Why don't you step up and do it, rather than telling me or others what we should be doing :surrender:
You forgot to add, "and die!" to the f-off remark. :roflcat: :roflcat:
User avatar
By dievhart
#296693
I hear ya Ryan...thanks for doing what you do.
We could let the RD record their votes if they want and if you don't like what your RD is doing,(not recording or voting bad) then vote them out....but it could just be up to the RDs?
just some more pennies.....carry on.
Diev
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