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By noman3
#159727
would you say that its fair that seedwings Europe uses bobs name for there product,even though they dont have permission.Seems to me that allot of people dont care that these guys are ripping off a fellow American.
User avatar
By Hank
#159733
If i was interested to find out the reason for Seedwings Europe being called Seedwings and why, i would send them an e-mail and ask. You might get a straight answer?
By the way Happy Xmas from Italy.
Hank :)
By noman3
#159735
merry xmas hank!We have quite a spread of food around here.I cant wait to dig in.

Do you know there email address?.
User avatar
By FPeel
#159794
noman3 wrote:would you say that its fair that seedwings Europe uses bobs name for there product,even though they dont have permission.
No. See my comment in the other thread.

F'n socialists.
By noman3
#159798
FPeel wrote:
noman3 wrote:would you say that its fair that seedwings Europe uses bobs name for there product,even though they dont have permission.
No. See my comment in the other thread.

F'n socialists.

lol,no joke,fukin socialists.
User avatar
By FMAN
#166399
Noman, don't fall 4 them getting you to personally attack them, you could copy and post this link in your signature. You know how sometimes when you try too hard and just mess it all up? I've been there, here is the link to the contact. Its not about the product, it is name they use to sell wings. Seedwings is TRAMPENAU's company name.

http://tinyurl.com/Seedwings1992contract

This is annoying me, and I apologize to everyone for seeming harsh. I just have a hard time typing, so I don't explain everything thoughly.
Fred
User avatar
By johnpeace
#195796
Tramp has more creative ingenuity in his little finger than the euro name-stealing company has in their entire organization.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
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By Jason
#195805
johnpeace wrote:Tramp has more creative ingenuity in his little finger than the euro name-stealing company has in their entire organization.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
I don't buy that

if that was true seedwings (US) would be a major producer of gliders

How many new gliders has Bob come out with lately
Harnesses?

How much does he produce

There was a contract....a company was formed......the two companies didn't stick together......one of those has gone on to become a major player.....the other has not......
User avatar
By johnpeace
#195813
if that was true seedwings (US) would be a major producer of gliders
Not necessarily.

I don't get the impression Bob wants to scale up to being a 'major' anything. He seems like he just wants to be a guy who builds high quality gliders in his workshop and remains closely involved with the mostly hands-on process.
User avatar
By rallyant
#195814
johnpeace wrote:
if that was true seedwings (US) would be a major producer of gliders
Not necessarily.

I don't get the impression Bob wants to scale up to being a 'major' anything. He seems like he just wants to be a guy who builds high quality gliders in his workshop and remains closely involved with the mostly hands-on process.
Depending on what the contract was, tt may be unfair to expect seewings europe to follow bobs business philosophy of not wanting to "scale up"
The time had come to move forward with some more modern designs.
IF Europe started out as a business partnership, bought in and were owners of the seedwings name with the contract, then I can understand there need to go there separate ways (I would probably have changed the name just to avoid issues still)


But unless we hear both sides of the story and maybe see the contact im not going to make any judgments one way or the other.
User avatar
By Jason
#195815
johnpeace wrote:
if that was true seedwings (US) would be a major producer of gliders
Not necessarily.

I don't get the impression Bob wants to scale up to being a 'major' anything. He seems like he just wants to be a guy who builds high quality gliders in his workshop and remains closely involved with the mostly hands-on process.
well, thats all fine and good


but i don't think its right to lambast a company that didn't want to build gliders out of a garage and went on to develop their own gliders/harness/dealer network etc

that goes back to the impression that I have had that Bob is a difficult guy to work with- sort of his way or the highway.....the Euros decided to get on the highway
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By johnpeace
#195816
But unless we hear both sides of the story and maybe see the contact
The contract is in one of the links a few posts up the page.
User avatar
By johnpeace
#195818
Jason wrote:
johnpeace wrote:
if that was true seedwings (US) would be a major producer of gliders
Not necessarily.

I don't get the impression Bob wants to scale up to being a 'major' anything. He seems like he just wants to be a guy who builds high quality gliders in his workshop and remains closely involved with the mostly hands-on process.
well, thats all fine and good


but i don't think its right to lambast a company that didn't want to build gliders out of a garage and went on to develop their own gliders/harness/dealer network etc

that goes back to the impression that I have had that Bob is a difficult guy to work with- sort of his way or the highway.....the Euros decided to get on the highway
And that's terrific and great for everyone...but using Bob's name to do it, outside of the constraints of their contract, was illegal, classless and low.
User avatar
By rallyant
#195820
Looks like the contract was with a pre existing company called Seedwings europe. Not sure how that stands up legally?

Regardless, I agree they should have / should change there name!
User avatar
By Jason
#195821
johnpeace wrote:
Jason wrote:
johnpeace wrote:
if that was true seedwings (US) would be a major producer of gliders
Not necessarily.

I don't get the impression Bob wants to scale up to being a 'major' anything. He seems like he just wants to be a guy who builds high quality gliders in his workshop and remains closely involved with the mostly hands-on process.
well, thats all fine and good


but i don't think its right to lambast a company that didn't want to build gliders out of a garage and went on to develop their own gliders/harness/dealer network etc

that goes back to the impression that I have had that Bob is a difficult guy to work with- sort of his way or the highway.....the Euros decided to get on the highway
And that's terrific and great for everyone...but using Bob's name to do it, outside of the constraints of their contract, was illegal, classless and low.
in the contract it specifies royalties to be paid if seedwings europe uses the name Seedwings......if Bob has a problem with it......he has a written agreement and can do something about it


for all i know Seedwings Europe offered royalties and Bob refused them...

hell for all i know.....Bob himself violated the contract......


if they are doing something illegal.....then it is up to Bob and Bob alone to do something about it......

until then...its unproven allegation.....and it will never be proven in a court of law unless bob steps up.....

if he doesn't....my speculation is either his case is week, or he just doesn't care


either way.....Seedwings Europe is producing new/modern gliders that are actually competitive in the price/performance market

7k for a kingposted glider......is not a competitive product....I can buy a T2 for 1000 dollars less with way more performance.....and pick it up sooner, and have parts available anywhere in the country
User avatar
By rallyant
#195822
Jason wrote:
in the contract it specifies royalties to be paid if seedwings europe uses the name Seedwings......if Bob has a problem with it......he has a written agreement and can do something about it

for all i know Seedwings Europe offered royalties and Bob refused them...

hell for all i know.....Bob himself violated the contract......

.....Seedwings Europe is producing new/modern gliders that are actually competitive in the price/performance market
Good point, Im back on the fence.
Ill keep buying and flying and selling them to anyone that wants them tho.
User avatar
By Holger
#195841
Jason wrote:if Bob has a problem with it......he has a written agreement and can do something about it
He did the only thing he could do: ask the HG community to support him in this case. International legal actions aren't an option for a company of the size of Seedwings, Inc.
Jason wrote:hell for all i know.....Bob himself violated the contract......
OK, can you support your accusation with facts?
Jason wrote:7k for a kingposted glider......is not a competitive product....I can buy a T2 for 1000 dollars less with way more performance.....and pick it up sooner, and have parts available anywhere in the country
Are you comparing your 10-year-old Sensor with a T2, or have you actually flown a new Sensor to know how it compares? Certainly, a king-posted glider will never be as fast as a topless, but unless you race or do serious cross country stuff, that's way less interesting then i.e. how it circles in weak thermals or how nicely it can be landed.

I'm not trying to promote Seedwings gliders. But a simple "goes faster" comparison isn't really fair, and the difference in price can mean less to some then you.

My point is we've seen almost all hang glider producers vanish here in the US. There are now three or so left, and none of them is making easy money. Before I criticize one of them I really try to be fair about it.
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