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User avatar
By wsu-nicodemus
#379291
danmoser wrote:
wsu-nicodemus wrote:
danmoser wrote:There are several ways to provide needed insurance to keep valuable flying sites open.
USHPA could have supported liability insurance for individual flying sites, rather than charging the national pool of pilot members.
Flying sites that require insurance are typically controlled by local clubs, who could be charged with the responsibility of managing the insurance of that particular site themselves, and distributing insurance costs fairly among the pool of pilots who use that site.
This would have more fairly distributed insurance costs to those who need to be insured, but this was not the USHPA's decision.

Instead, USHPA decision-makers decided to dramatically raise dues on all member pilots to cover insurance costs, regardless of the insurance needs of each individual pilot.
It is not clear to what extent that the USHPA's BOD even considered other insurance options, or how much they considered various pilots' insurance needs.
I'm sure it was the most convenient for them to just raise the dues on everyone, and be done with it,

In contrast, the US Ultralight Association does not require insurance for its flying membership.
However, USUA does offer optional group liability insurance on a per-aircraft basis.
Other aviation groups operate in a similar way.
This might not be practical for HGs, but there are many other options.

As it stands, USHPA member pilots who fly at flying sites that do not require insurance are charged for insurance that they do not need, if they wish to remain dues-paying members of USHPA.
I assume USHPA arrived at their decision after estimating how many pilots would drop out of USHPA as a result of the latest dues increase, and figured it was worth the risk.
Did they make a bad decision? .. time will tell.
Considering you haven't been a USHPA member since March, I'm assuming you are on one of your 'off again' times. Honestly, what are you complaining about when you aren't a current member and who knows when you will be? If you want to fly ultralights or hang glide at sites that don't require insurance, go for it (but please be able to take of any damage you are responsible for). For those of us who appreciate the landowners that let us use their property, this insurance is a very small price to pay for what we get in return.

All of us are in risk pools that we don't feel like we directly benefit from, get use to it. Refer to NME's post.
So .. discussing constructive suggestions for trying to lower the cost of flying HGs is complaining?
OK .. feel free to call me a complainer, if that satisfies your ego somehow.

If you think that some pilots' deciding not to renew their USHPA membership is making hang gliding a better sport,
Or if you think that rapidly rising costs & regulations is somehow a good thing,
.. then go out and celebrate your victory.
.

"Rapidly rising costs" (you mention multiple times) : are you kidding? Are you still living in 1975? Whatever you do, don't go to the new Star Wars movie next month. You will choke at the price compared to the original. The rest of us will tell you all about it.

I've recently had to look into umbrella coverage and I can say first hand that this is a deal for a million bucks of coverage. Coverage by the way that protects the land owners who graciously let us use their land. With all the litigation in our country, it's more than appropriate for the landowners to protect themselves by having us carry a policy. I'm actually surprised we get away with only one million $ and not more.

Basically your "suggestions" are over $50 per year... that's adorable. Since you aren't a member, I'm having a difficult time understanding what your personal issue is. I don't know anyone who is leaving the sport over this. If you felt compelled to leave anything over $50/yr you probably have more important problems to attend to.

Suggesting a pay for site by club is short sited and unrealistic. Do you only pay for the roads you drive your car on? Why not? This would be a great way to lose a lot of sites. Again, you're just complaining over a cost, which really isn't out of line. Sure, out of line compared to 1975, but not in 2015.

If you want to make a realistic suggestion that can get traction, work with USHPA and bring your credentials and your suggestions directly to the source. While you are messing around doing that, the great majority of us will be gladly paying the $50/yr and spending our time flying with our friends. If you would like, we can tell you how great the flying is as well.

By the way, what are your credentials?
User avatar
By AnthonyV
#379292
HG pilot shopping for life insurance. Any good CURRENT leads or info to assist with this endeavor?
User avatar
By AnthonyV
#379294
AnthonyV wrote:HG pilot shopping for life insurance. Any good CURRENT leads or info to assist with this endeavor?
C'mon ... There's gotta be an insurance agent somewhere out there on this thread that wants my money ... or at least someone that know's of one? Promised wifey I'd get it.
User avatar
By Tontar
#379296
Looking for a good lead of liability insurance for hang gliding? Sure, I've got a lead, and the best deal by hundreds of not thousands of dollars. I found coverage for only $150 a year. Smoking good deal since everyone else out there either flat out refused, or were going to charge premiums I could not even hope to afford. But hey, it's kinda not just a straight up product to buy. It comes with a magazine, and hmmm, maybe I want it, maybe I don't. Not always sure about that. Could be a trick. Could be a conspiracy. And the deal also puts a tiny bit of pressure on me to be a decent pilot so that Inkeep my risk to them a bit lower but there's a loophole there I found! You only have to clear their test once! I could cram for the tests and if I pass, I am good to go. I don't even have to take currency tests to make sure I maintain my skills! Dude, one test and good for life? And no medical either.

So while it's an outrageously good deal financially, a deal that no other insurance company has been willing to even get within the ballpark, it does have its downside. A magazine I don't know if I really want to be paying for, and a test I am not comfortable taking because I fly for myself and not to please others. Maybe I'll just pass altogether and take my chances. Besides, if I get sued they aren't going to get anything anyway, I don't have anything to take. The joke will be on them! Haha!
User avatar
By wsu-nicodemus
#379297
AnthonyV wrote:
AnthonyV wrote:HG pilot shopping for life insurance. Any good CURRENT leads or info to assist with this endeavor?
C'mon ... There's gotta be an insurance agent somewhere out there on this thread that wants my money ... or at least someone that know's of one? Promised wifey I'd get it.
Life insurance in what they want to classify as an extreme sport is tricky (right or wrong). Probably best to have an 'off the record' conversation with someone personally and get a lot of facts based on what if's and information gathering.

A few things I found:
1: The life insurance an employer provides as part of their benefits typically doesn't require the questionnaire that can expose us for higher rates.
2: There is a thing called "contest-ability period" to look into.
3: Each of us chose to do this sport and there are some consequences for doing so.

Sorry I'm not more help, I'm not an insurance agent.
User avatar
By Fred Wilson
#379298
Far Far better off to start a new, carefully titled topic here. (Remembering this is a world wide forum.)
Life Insurance is a tough one (as is Travel Medical Insurance.)

Companies that cover the sport seem to drop their plans (including us) frequently. Then other providers are dug up.
The Paragliding Forum is chock a block with posts asking "who insures us now" for travel or life insurance.
By Nate
#379300
AnthonyV wrote:
AnthonyV wrote:HG pilot shopping for life insurance. Any good CURRENT leads or info to assist with this endeavor?
C'mon ... There's gotta be an insurance agent somewhere out there on this thread that wants my money ... or at least someone that know's of one? Promised wifey I'd get it.
Any responsible family man flying HG should have this covered.

Get 2 policies. One that covers you for HG and is just enough to cover say, the rest of your mortgage and burial. The other, get one with an aviation exclusion that will cover what you really need.

.02

:popcorn:
By blindrodie
#379303
I always heard one could get a policy from Northwestern Mutual but one had to be H4 or above for the rider to qualify...

8)
User avatar
By AnthonyV
#379310
Thanks all for the info. & suggestions! Sorry about it being a little off topic, am quite new to posting in the Forum. Am now on the hunt. Will advise later in new thread with outcome to assist others that may be in need. Cheers! Tony :)
User avatar
By danmoser
#379340
It's bizarre that nobody wants to address my suggestion to insure individual flying sites, rather than the entire pool USHPA member pilots.

Instead, they'd rather talk about when I let my membership lapse, and how much a Star Wars movie ticket cost in 1975.. seriously?? :crazy:

As if it were any of your business, I did indeed let my USHPA membership temporarily lapse in March for medical/workload reasons, and had planned to renew it by now, but am having second thoughts lately.
I don't know why that should bother anyone, or affect the merit my flying site insurance suggestions.
The increasing amount of money that USHPA and local clubs keep squeezing out of hapless members year after year is not the only factor.
I'm just not getting as much clear benefit from USHPA membership as I used to, given the current culture and the flying that I want to do in the future.
In my opinion, USHPA no longer represents the interests of hang glider pilots very well.
You may disagree with that opinion, but I do not see any clear evidence to the contrary.

The community of hang glider pilots has been an enjoyable group to be in, but it's kind of sad to see what it has evolved into lately.
In spite of all that, I still love to go hang gliding.
That will not change until I stop breathing. :thumbsup:
User avatar
By NMERider
#379343
danmoser wrote:It's bizarre that nobody wants to address my suggestion to insure individual flying sites, rather than the entire pool USHPA member pilots.....
Torrey Pines has its own insurance. They don't even need the USHPA to continue their operations. Torrey probably has more financial muscle than most if not all other flying sites in the US combined. Your suggestion is not economically viable other than with a few extremely limited exceptions. Now if there were a few hundred thousand active HG/PG pilots in the US instead of the ten thousand we now have than more sites may be able to afford their own insurance.

BTW - It is extremely rare that anyone on this forum ever addresses the question(s) asked or the points raised by an OP. I don't know why this is. Can somebody answer this?

Hey Alan - I'm only 92 posts from my 10,000th. :lol:
User avatar
By TjW
#379345
NMERider wrote: BTW - It is extremely rare that anyone on this forum ever addresses the question(s) asked or the points raised by an OP. I don't know why this is. Can somebody answer this?

Hey Alan - I'm only 92 posts from my 10,000th. :lol:
I started a thread on that once, but I never found out why.
By old newbie
#379347
It's those Dan paragliders
User avatar
By NMERider
#379348
TjW wrote:
NMERider wrote: BTW - It is extremely rare that anyone on this forum ever addresses the question(s) asked or the points raised by an OP. I don't know why this is. Can somebody answer this?

Hey Alan - I'm only 92 posts from my 10,000th. :lol:
I started a thread on that once, but I never found out why.
Sounds ambiguous. Oops. Only 91 to go now.
User avatar
By Fred Wilson
#379364
Put up 91 Videos.
Rogues here gotta have something to read and do :lol: rather than come up with Fn numb skull threads. :rofl:

Mt 7 - Golden BC thanks to Tyler Borredaile: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheKelownarealtor/videos
Rudimental - I Will For Love feat. Will Heard [Official Video]

[youtube]
[/youtube]
Last edited by Fred Wilson on Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By mgforbes
#379365
NMERider wrote:Torrey Pines has its own insurance. They don't even need the USHPA to continue their operations.
Torrey is one of the schools that has been notified that its insurance will not be renewed next year, along with others. Yes, they have a separate policy, but it's underwritten by the same syndicate that writes USHPA's policy. They'll be one of the schools that participates in the RRG funding. Without insurance that site closes down, probably permanently. Same goes for Dockweiler, Andy Jackson, Soboba and many others.

More on this coming with your December magazine in a few days.

MGF
User avatar
By NMERider
#379393
mgforbes wrote:
NMERider wrote:Torrey Pines has its own insurance. They don't even need the USHPA to continue their operations.
Torrey is one of the schools that has been notified that its insurance will not be renewed next year, along with others. Yes, they have a separate policy, but it's underwritten by the same syndicate that writes USHPA's policy. They'll be one of the schools that participates in the RRG funding. Without insurance that site closes down, probably permanently. Same goes for Dockweiler, Andy Jackson, Soboba and many others.

More on this coming with your December magazine in a few days.

MGF
There is nothing about insurance in the December issue which is now available online with the safety discussion starting here: http://issuu.com/us_hang_gliding_paragl ... 12_issuu/6

I'm sorry to learn that more sites besides Dockweiller are losing their outside insurance. Now, more than ever the sports of PG and HG need to consolidate their resources for mutual survival.

Just 89 more posts till 10,000. :roll:
User avatar
By rmsmith
#379402
NMERider wrote:Now, more than ever the sports of PG and HG need to consolidate their resources for mutual survival.
IMHO, all of the aero sports, e.g., ballooning, skydiving, paragliding, etc., need to band together and lobby toward an immunity from liability similar to that enjoyed by the skiing industry.
User avatar
By davisstraub
#379404
Would that work for us?
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