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By JohnFritsche
#369993
The only huge double-surface, high-performance tandem glider I'm familiar with is the Moyes 210 GTR, which hasn't been produced since the late 80's, I think. The smaller sizes were good for aerobatics (by the standards of that time), but I never saw or heard of people tandem-looping the 210. I think Larry Tudor set some tandem XC records with one of them.
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By DAVE858
#369999
That looked pretty close to a loop to me! WOW!!!
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By JohnFritsche
#370036
Just looked at the video. Yeah, that's about as close to a full loop as you can come. An extreme wang like that is just as difficult to pull-off successfully as a loop. That's amazing that it's on a single-surface glider, let alone as a tandem.
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By dave hopkins
#370076
areobatics in tandem is basically banned. It has been the source of many fatalities and bad injuries. I think the rule reads no unnecessary maneuvers .

although those are impressive loops and wangs.
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By Skyvine
#370084
Interesting. The video was posted in 2011, but was copyright 2003. Perhaps the original pilot/producer got so much grief from other pilots at the time that it wasn't uploaded until the fury died down?

As to aero maneuvers in a single-surface glider, that's how we did it in the old days. We didn't have anything else at the time. I used to regularly put my WW Alpha 245 into 180 degree wingovers (it's not a loop if you don't go straight up and over) when I was not flying it tandem.

As to tandem aero maneuvers, don't do it. The aero-elasticity of modern flex-wings is pretty awesome, but a hair too much yaw and/or side-slip during a high-speed high-wing loading situation can quickly cause structural failure. And that assumes you have experienced pilots as both PIC and passenger. Putting inexperienced students through high-banked maneuvers while flying tandem should result in a minimum warning of rating revocation for first offense, and loss of privilege after that IMHO.

Cheers!
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By mgforbes
#370097
Skyvine wrote:
As to tandem aero maneuvers, don't do it. The aero-elasticity of modern flex-wings is pretty awesome, but a hair too much yaw and/or side-slip during a high-speed high-wing loading situation can quickly cause structural failure. And that assumes you have experienced pilots as both PIC and passenger. Putting inexperienced students through high-banked maneuvers while flying tandem should result in a minimum warning of rating revocation for first offense, and loss of privilege after that IMHO.

Cheers!
Indeed. In fact, we added some specific language to the tandem SOP to make it clear that tandem aerobatics with students are prohibited. A tandem instructional flight with a non-rated student pilot should not be covering the fine points of aerobatic flying. It's not a thrill ride. This applies both to HG and even more so to PG....we had some pilots doing stuff with students that was well outside of the normal training curriculum. Penalties range from a warning and a note in your file, to immediate suspension and revocation of a tandem and/or pilot rating.

Between rated pilots, things are more relaxed. If a suitable glider was available I think it would be great to learn aerobatic techniques from a guy like Aaron Swepston. But that's for rated pilots who understand the risks they're taking and are capable of making an informed decision to fly.

MGF
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By dave hopkins
#370141
mgforbes wrote:
Skyvine wrote:
As to tandem aero maneuvers, don't do it. The aero-elasticity of modern flex-wings is pretty awesome, but a hair too much yaw and/or side-slip during a high-speed high-wing loading situation can quickly cause structural failure. And that assumes you have experienced pilots as both PIC and passenger. Putting inexperienced students through high-banked maneuvers while flying tandem should result in a minimum warning of rating revocation for first offense, and loss of privilege after that IMHO.

Cheers!
Indeed. In fact, we added some specific language to the tandem SOP to make it clear that tandem aerobatics with students are prohibited. A tandem instructional flight with a non-rated student pilot should not be covering the fine points of aerobatic flying. It's not a thrill ride. This applies both to HG and even more so to PG....we had some pilots doing stuff with students that was well outside of the normal training curriculum. Penalties range from a warning and a note in your file, to immediate suspension and revocation of a tandem and/or pilot rating.

Between rated pilots, things are more relaxed. If a suitable glider was available I think it would be great to learn aerobatic techniques from a guy like Aaron Swepston. But that's for rated pilots who understand the risks they're taking and are capable of making an informed decision to fly.

MGF
thanks for the clarification mark
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By toom
#371775
Hi folks,
I am new here or at least haven't posted in quite a while, so hello everybody.
I really do not believe a loop would be a good idea in a biplace but if someone wants tor try it, I have a Bico biplace glider (from Bautek) for sale :)
Cheers,
Thomas