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By DMarley
#399269
RobertKesselring wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:35 pm
MikeyHG wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:40 am
I will try not to overdo the training and get injured. For all sprinting, I'm sticking to grass so that I don't have to deal with a hard impact. i want to get fit for other stuff beside hang gliding hill training as well.
Do lots of squats.
You'll be squatting a 50 - 60 lb glider 4 or 5 times per training flight, 10 or more flights per day, so, 50 ish times per training session. I was more sore than any other time in my life before or since.
Yes Mike, do all your running/sprinting on soft surfaces such as grass, sand (beach), or dirt. Never on concrete or even asphalt surfaces.
For me, even with a lot of leg training before hand, my legs became a bit sore. Perhaps not as sore as Roberts, but they were sore. But I've felt far worse.
My landings were the toughest on the legs since they were mostly stuck landings. I became quite adept at those, but the legs suffered because I think I didn't bend my knees enough upon landing. So I switched to a 'lightly drag the toes, crescendo flare at trim +1 second, and ease it in GENTLY with a two-step landing'. That method was much kinder to my aching quads. Practice jumping up or off a low platform, and then deeply bending your knees while landing. Exactly like "box jumps." Look it up. This may save you much grief.
I did have one terrible 'landing' that pretzelled both downtubes, but I felt no pain and continued to train after the DT's were replaced. That evening, my right quad was black and blue and somewhat swollen from my crotch down past my knee. After plenty of icing and aspirin, the training continued the next day. My launches were fluid and my landings became super, silky-smooth for fear of waking the screaming quad monster. Thankfully, the muscles healed quickly with plenty of icing, aspirin, and exercise on the training hills. This was at the tender age of 54 years young.
Nope, we are not sadists. Once you get the taste of flying like a bird, you will understand. Very little will keep you from mounting that wing and flying off the hill.
Most of all... train your brain! Read all you can! Try your best to understand and visualize the sequence of events of launching and landing that you read in the books. The first day on the hills will make it all worth it.
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By DMarley
#399273
Tom, Have you seen how swing dancers dance? Typically, they have very nicely developed, strong legs and good proprioception. It's no wonder they did well on the hill. However, dancing may not be the quickest way to prepare and advance a guy's athletic ability that wants to get to the training hills ASAP. Do you have any constructive advise, or are you just being argumentative today?
#399275
My original reply was to Mike, about his plan for sprinting. It was based on my observations of students. My conclusions could be incorrect, but my intention is to share with him my experiences so that his training will be more productive.

I swing dance, as well as milonga, tango, waltz,foxtrot, etc... Dancing is a full body aerobic exercise, that develops better balance, and will give you the skills for sensing feedback from your partner as you are moving, that applies directly to sensing feedback from a glider. Skiing, swimming, and biking are also good activities to prepare for training.

Sprinting(not running) is a jack rabbit start rather than smooth acceleration. That is not a muscle memory you wish to reinforce before going to the training hill. A week of practicing a 20 yard walk, jog, run for 15 minutes each day will bring better results.

He is free to ignore my advice as are you.
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By DMarley
#399276
Also Tom, remember where we live. We are in tree country. Lots of trees, stumps, brush, etc. Many times the slopes are not very long in many of the flying sites. Often it is very necessary to really get boogieing down the slope in the shortest distance possible to avoid finding one's self in the scrub or the tops of trees. From the looks of things, you don't have that problem. At least not as much. It behooves a pilot to be able to accelerate, smoothly certainly, but constantly and powerfully. We are in no place for dilly-dallying or merrily prancing down a long, clear, slope. Here, we have to actively push and accelerate. And keep the nose down all at the same time. Different environments require different tactics.
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By DMarley
#399279
TomGalvin wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:33 pm

I swing dance, as well as milonga, tango, waltz,foxtrot, etc... Dancing is a full body aerobic exercise, that develops better balance, and will give you the skills for sensing feedback from your partner as you are moving, that applies directly to sensing feedback from a glider. Skiing, swimming, and biking are also good activities to prepare for training.

Sprinting(not running) is a jack rabbit start rather than smooth acceleration. That is not a muscle memory you wish to reinforce before going to the training hill. A week of practicing a 20 yard walk, jog, run for 15 minutes each day will bring better results.

He is free to ignore my advice as are you.
It wouldn't be prudent for us to ignore your advice, Tom.
#399297
You do not sprint when launching a hang glider.
Seems a prudent reply when talking to newbies... :twisted:
8)
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By DMarley
#399299
I've seen too many people casually waltz off a relatively calm FSL and barely make it off without even realizing that they just escaped failure by the skin of their teeth. Do they continue to do this over and over because they've been always told to WALK, jog, run, and forgot about the jog and run parts? Just after the pilot begins walking, the glider tilts back and up, the AoA becomes too large creating too much aerodynamic drag, and the kite begins lifting enough that the pilot no longer has weight on the feet to get into the jog and run parts of the launch. I've seen H4's do this same thing. Three or four prancing steps in low-wind conditions and they're airborne.... barely.
Clearly this all boils down to an AoA control problem, but my point is that the glider will pop it's nose with any type of acceleration, walk, run or sprint, if the pilot isn't constantly monitoring the glider and is only thinking about getting into the air rather than concentrating solely on attaining energy before rotation to flight.
Walk, jog, run - type launching is good and well, but teaching strict AoA control is absolutely paramount and I believe it is not examined and reinforced strongly enough in much instruction by the look of things.
This is why I believe it important to practice sprints. Its important to understand what the terminal part of a flat sloped launch run should feel like. The legs should be moving very quickly as if in a full-out sprint. It will be at least nearly a sprint in low-wind conditions if the pilot attains the required energy for a safe and effective launch. Perhaps a description such as "a smooth and gradual acceleration to sprint speed, all while keeping the arms down in a grape-vine grip position," would be a more helpful exercise.
#399302
I forget who it was I was talking to about launch technique, but I remember what they said, and it's been the last words through my mind every launch since then...

"Hold the nose down and run like hell!!"
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By TjW
#399305
There's a mental block that needs to be overcome about running full tilt downhill. It's similar to height in the "Are you afraid of heights" thread.
I have a memory from about 3 years old of finding a grassy slope, thinking "This is great, I can run really fast without much effort!" That lasted until I couldn't get my feet under me any more and I went ass-over-teakettle down the hill. It's my theory that a lot of people have similar experiences, and are (justifiably) shy about really committing to running downhill. They may not even be concious of it, because it's practically something they learned learning to walk.
Add a heavy awkward contraption on their shoulders, and running downhill is going to seem like even a worse idea.
But, just like being hooked into a glider can make going over a cliff less dangerous, it can make running downhill less dangerous because you can slow the glider and make yourself more upright/ get your legs underneath you again by raising the nose.
Walk-jog-run is the beginner lesson. It allows you to get a feel for controlling the glider in the launch run. It's easy to teach, and it works pretty well on the training hill.
Once you have learned control over the glider in the launch run, the safest launch is the launch in which you fully commit to getting the glider flying. I've seen too many launches where the "walk" part is tentative.
#399312
I like the walk-jog-run technique. It especially helps keep my from having a jack-rabbit start. Except when I increase my running speed, I am not necessarily focusing on running faster, but I am taking longer strides. Though speed is the ultimate goal, the glider will start to support your weight at some point, and the goal of running it to let the glider keep accelerating while keeping your face from plowing into whatever is in front of you. I will have to do a video to show what I mean... But I would like to hear your thoughts.
#399320
Good lord people why has it been "Walk Jog "RUN" for over 40 years...I've NEVER seen it written as anything about "sprinting". :crazy: Well until this thread...

8)
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By DMarley
#399323
Clearly, 'walk-jog-run' has worked well for forty plus years. I don't believe I was suggesting to change that. But I do believe that it is fine (without a glider) to practice smoothly accelerating to sprint speed for distances of roughly 50 to 75 yards as an exercise to help one to build up any lacking leg strength and leg speed, coordination, and proprioception.
Just as Tom and Jim indicate, 'walk-jog-run' provides an appropriate mental image for someone on the top of a slope with a glider on their shoulders.
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By Maineiac
#399328
TomGalvin wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:49 am
magicpotato wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:42 am
But I would like to hear your thoughts.
Nice explanation. Dave Hopkins calls that last phase the moon walk. We can not sprint as fast as a glider can launch, but we can increase our airspeed with those last few moonwalk steps.
You should see him do it backwards on launch with one glove on to the tune of "Billie Jean."
#399352
Lots of good advice here Mikeyhg dont let it all overwhelm you though :) .I think perhaps Love2Glide may say it the simplest for you, i"ll just add a little fear is a good thing :wink: I thought the learning log wrote by Robert Kesselring while training at your training site LMFP is a great aid .Good luck mate. A correct run and subtle pitch control is needed on this really shallow launch in light winds. You can"t dive away,swoop off or even sink down here, you must fly the wing away from the ground. We built the "helper" ramp to put the odds back on our side 8)
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By dbotos
#399353
I was at Jockey's Ridge on the Outer Banks last week and did my first slope foot launching (all my training had been flat land scooter tow before that). On the second day I flew, we ended up on the much flatter SE dune. My instructor had me do various ground handling exercises. One was to run with the glider as slow as possible to just keep it off my shoulders. Another was to get me and the glider going as fast as possible down the flat slope while still maintaining control. So essentially exploring the limits of ground speed for the given wind speed and that particular slope. Each ground handling run ended with a flare.

We also worked on steering the glider while running. My instructor called it "punching the hip" since you tried to bring your hand to your hip on the side that you wanted to steer to (e.g. if glider is rolling to left while you're in your run, you want to move your right hip and right hand / downtube closer together).

This was on sand, but it should work fine on a gentle grassy slope free of obstructions.

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