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By flybop
#387215
There is a very good group of pilots in the central Pa area. Look up the Hyner Group online. Plan on going wherever they are and get to know them. You will find a way to learn with this group.

As others have said: Sometimes learning to fly hg's takes a lot of driving, a whole lot of time and effort. However, the rewards are so worth the effort. Don't give up!
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By RobertKesselring
#387222
flybop wrote:Sometimes learning to fly hg's takes a lot of driving, a whole lot of time and effort. However, the rewards are so worth the effort. Don't give up!
Could not agree with this any more emphaticly!
This was me last Saturday. The little orange circle is the launch area on TOP of the mountain, 1600 feet below me. I'm 2500 feet over the vally. Just to give you a sense of scale, the launch area is probably the size of 4 to 6 basketball courts...

Keep with it. By summers end, or maybe next year, this could be you.
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By idahoDal
#387224
When the USHPA website says "Advanced" instructor it means they can confer H3 and H4 ratings *as well as* H1/H2. Get involved with your local club http://www.hynerclub.com/ and they will happily point you in the right direction.
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By thermaleo
#387227
freeflight wrote:Where is it written that you can't buy your own wing and go out and teach yourself? That's what I did and it worked for me. :popcorn:
It's not. You can try that. You stand a good chance of killing yourself or ending up in a wheelchair, but it's not illegal.

Please don't do that. You are learning to fly an aircraft here. Flying is very intolerant of mistakes.

Very few of us had a flying school on our doorstep. In 1979 I drove 400 mile round trips and slept in my car in order to learn. If you are serious then make the effort and get instruction.

Leo Jones
By JackieB
#387228
maximilionalpha wrote:
freeflight wrote:Where is it written that you can't buy your own wing and go out and teach yourself? That's what I did and it worked for me. :popcorn:
Been considering doing that for some time now and may just do it.
Please know that very, very few people can successfully teach themselves how to fly. It's much more likely that you will seriously injure or kill yourself trying. That's based on over 100 years of aviation history.

If there is one thing that can be said about flying with 100% certainty it's that it is extremely intolerant of certain types of mistakes. So much so that we must do everything we can to avoid making these particular mistakes even one time. There aren't too many pursuits like that. As a result, this is much of what instructors impress upon us again and again so that hopefully we can avoid the deadly mistakes.
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By Darbbb
#387230
JackieB wrote:
maximilionalpha wrote:
freeflight wrote:Where is it written that you can't buy your own wing and go out and teach yourself? That's what I did and it worked for me. :popcorn:
Been considering doing that for some time now and may just do it.
Please know that very, very few people can successfully teach themselves how to fly. It's much more likely that you will seriously injure or kill yourself trying. That's based on over 100 years of aviation history.

If there is one thing that can be said about flying with 100% certainty it's that it is extremely intolerant of certain types of mistakes. So much so that we must do everything we can to avoid making these particular mistakes even one time. There aren't too many pursuits like that. As a result, this is much of what instructors impress upon us again and again so that hopefully we can avoid the deadly mistakes.
:ditto: :ditto:

What they said. Would you teach yourself to fly an airplane? This is aviation we're talking about, not golf.

Hang gliding is about the least convenient sport on the planet, unless maybe your past time is scaling Everest. I drove four hours each direction for my training, and I was there pretty much every weekend. That's good though, because this is a sport that requires commitment and dedication to keep yourself current and thus safe. If you really want it, you will find a way to make it happen.
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By TomGalvin
#387234
Darbbb wrote:
JackieB wrote:
maximilionalpha wrote:Been considering doing that for some time now and may just do it.
Please know that very, very few people can successfully teach themselves how to fly. It's much more likely that you will seriously injure or kill yourself trying.
This is aviation we're talking about, not golf.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uc-LIr4wD8[/youtube]
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By Litespeeder
#387237
Its a shame that we are losing instructors at such an alarming rate. Here in the Mid-Atlantic, one of the larger population centers in the US, there are no full time schools left to teach HangGliding. From Blue sky in Richmond Va. to Ellenville NY. there is a huge void that was left when Highland Aerosports closed, as well as some of the part time instructors in the area who are no longer teaching. Just another nail in the coffin of our dying sport.
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By lukef
#387244
I went through the same thought process as you when I was repeatedly driving 14 hour round trips to the inland flats to do the initial training. We had no training hills so I did several trips with no real progress and had several trips booked and cancelled and wasted a lot of leave to be told the day before it wasn't on. In addition lack of students to make it worth the instructors time and outlay hampered me for 2.5 years. All this time watching the guys soaring on the dunes 5 minutes from my house. I felt stupid I was travelling half way across the state when most of flying I was going to be doing was 5 minutes from home.

Fast forward to now. All of my grumbling disappeared when I finally got to soar above the ocean on the big coastal cliffs to the south. I would literally now do it all again if I had to it IS worth it ! I know that some of the older pilots I fly with taught themselves. However I think they have that same gift and knack I think people who teach themselves to backflip motor cycles and don’t kill themselves, they just have it. I am certainly one of those who doesn’t and although it took me a while, the quality of training skill and experience of the instructor helped me to get a firm grasp of the basics and have been flying for two years on the coast under the guidance of senior pilots and to date the worst I have done is bend two down tubes with no injuries.

To be frank though I found out later that there was a flight park in the eastern states that has been able to process all the other novices I fly with in two weeks flat. If I had my time again I would certainly pay the extra $800 for the airfare and be off and racing in a couple of weeks. I spent a significant amount more money on travelling and accommodation for all the extra trips I didn’t budget for when I signed up which was quite a strain financially, if there is place that has reliable flying conditions and good instruction, if you can afford it go there and do your training and save a lot of grief.
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By AIRTHUG
#387245
maximilionalpha wrote:I work and live in Central NJ during the week and travel over 200 miles on the weekends back home to Central Pa, so I'm tired of driving so much, being that I also drive a vending route throughout the week. :ahh:
Ellenville NY instructor and school owner here... nice to meet you (sort of anyway).

As kind as I can say this, because I actually do understand what you meant in the quote above... and feeling that way is entirely understandable and justified...

We're talking about learning aviation- taking flight instruction- becoming a PILOT. It takes commitment. I've always said- I can teach ANYONE to fly- luckily for me not everyone *wants* to fly :rofl: But those that I've seen succeed the most and truly achieve their dream, were the ones that you couldn't keep AWAY from lessons. If their car broke down they'd walk to their lesson. If their work demanded their time heavily, they'd go in unthinkably early... or work tirelessly late... or both... to make time for their training.

Central NJ... Central PA... you have a couple options- great options at that- and if a little driving is going to keep you from pursuing it... perhaps this isn't something you want enough to follow through with it and become a pilot. I hope I'm wrong... and I'd be honored if you choose to knock down some miles and give us a chance to help you reach your goal(s)...

Ryan Voight / www.FlyHighHG.com
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By flybop
#387256
lukef wrote:
To be frank though I found out later that there was a flight park in the eastern states that has been able to process all the other novices I fly with in two weeks flat. If I had my time again I would certainly pay the extra $800 for the airfare and be off and racing in a couple of weeks. I spent a significant amount more money on travelling and accommodation for all the extra trips I didn’t budget for when I signed up which was quite a strain financially, if there is place that has reliable flying conditions and good instruction, if you can afford it go there and do your training and save a lot of grief.
This is so true. Unless you have reliable training very close to home you will have a much better time taking the time to travel to and stay at a training facility. I spent more money, and certainly far more time, driving 4+ hrs one way for training. More times than not I got precious few actual t hill flights.

Additionally, you are far more likely to actually get your H2 if you concentrate your lessons in a shorter amount of time. You have a great group of pilots and flying sites where you live. So, go for it.
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By miraclepieco
#387260
.

This is what hang gliding has come to under USHPA management.

I won't say the Association is intentionally orchestrating the demise of hang gliding, but I am saying that they couldn't do a better job if they tried.

And with the influx of paragliding membership and money, they have little incentive to view this as a crisis or do anything about it.



.
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By AIRTHUG
#387261
I am not clear on who this mysteriously generic "they" is, being referenced in the thread subject line as well as the post above?
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By mgforbes
#387266
Me, presumably, along with the rest of us on the BOD and the other volunteers who have been working to keep some kind of insurance program in place. It's a time of transition, and there are going to be disruptions as business models adjust, some instructors decide that it's not worth doing any more, etc.

Without pilot and site insurance, we're effectively done as a sport. Access to land is a key element in our ability to fly, and nay-sayers aside, most sites are open because land owners know that we are insured against damage we may do. There was one source of that coverage and they decided not to renew our policies. We have been able to form our own captive insurer to continue having a source of coverage.

Instructors are understandably upset that the cost of insurance is increasing for them, and they're being required to carry commercial school insurance if they're teaching for pay at insured sites. But we can't continue to subsidize the costs for instructors to the extent we have in the past, both through direct membership support of instructor insurance costs, and through the mis-pricing of the insurance vs claims which led to the decision not to renew. The reality is that what's now being charged is the TRUE cost of teaching for pay, and that will have to be baked into the fees instructors charge for lessons. Everybody's affected by this, and we've tried to make the entry-level price as low as possible to help out the small instructors. But it's not free, and we can't drive it any lower at present.

If we can do a good job of driving down accident rates and claims, then our future premiums will be lower and insurance rates will go down. But that can't happen until we demonstrate several years of improved performance, enough to convince the insurance actuaries and regulators that we really have changed the pattern of the past. I hope we'll demonstrate that sooner than later, and start to reap the benefits of a captive insurance program within a few years.

Over the long term insurers have made a bunch of money off our sport. As bad as this disruption is right now, I think that in a decade we'll look back on our move to self-insurance and recognize it as a significant benefit to our sport and its future.

MGF
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By piano_man
#387269
AIRTHUG wrote: We're talking about learning aviation- taking flight instruction- becoming a PILOT. It takes commitment. ... But those that I've seen succeed the most and truly achieve their dream, were the ones that you couldn't keep AWAY from lessons. If their car broke down they'd walk to their lesson. If their work demanded their time heavily, they'd go in unthinkably early... or work tirelessly late... or both... to make time for their training.

That was my experience. I was "cleared" to fly off the mountain (after a year on the training hills) when "life" just got in the way. A year later, it dawned on me that my dream to fly that was -oh so close to being realized, and yet- slipping away.

At the time, I had very little money but at least enough for gas. My automatic 4-wheel drive Bronco II transmission was dying - no longer had 3rd gear or reverse, just 1st & 2nd; pretty much stayed very local that previous year. Work was only a couple of miles away, always parked so I didn't need to back out. Often I would walk to work.

So when it hit me (like a ton of bricks) that it had been a year and my dream was starting to slip away - I became possessed. My thought process sort of went like this: Holy sh*t, it's been a whole year .... WHERE ARE MY KEYS? I'M GOING NOW!

After a minute or two, I calmed down a bit and came back to my senses, then proceeded to address each and every concern I had in order to go fly.

A conversation I had w myself written up as a script where the actors are:

Big John - the grown up "me" or camp Sobriety,
Little John - is camp Spontaneity.

Big John: Can't go NOW, gotta work this week.
Little John: O.K. this week-end is free. I can go then.

B.J. - Truck has only 1st and 2nd gear, probably won't even make the trip.
L.J. - F^&k it, as long as it makes it there, I can hitch a ride or get a taxi back.

B.J. - I don't have current tags on the license plate (failed smog inspection)
L.J. - F*^k it, how often does a cop get behind you anyways?

So I went that week-end, re-cleared within 3 hours, became a mountain pilot and even made it back without a cop getting behind me.

Like many have already said in this thread, sometimes you have to REALLY want it. You might even have to become transfixed or possessed, like I did. As the ol' saying goes, "Where there's a will, there's a way". Good luck mate.
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By BBJCaptain
#387270
Can't ever win a hockey game if there's no goalies

.
Last edited by BBJCaptain on Mon May 02, 2016 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By davisstraub
#387274
Hang gliding itself is pretty easy.

The point of instruction is to keep you from hurting or killing yourself long enough that you can actually learn to fly.
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By Karl_A
#387276
Yes! YES! They ARE trying to eliminate HG! They ARE causing every outlet for men to be phased out of existence! THEY are DETERMINED to RUIN your MANHOOD!! THEY are POLLUTING and DEGRADING YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!!!

Sorry. I just couldn't resist.

I learned to fly HG at a site a 2 1/2 hour drive from my house. Was there every weekend but 2 from Memorial Day to Labor Day '82. If that seems quick, that site was consistently good, very few days lost to weather, and I already knew how to fly.
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By lostgriz
#387285
davisstraub wrote:http://blueskyhg.com
I second that!
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By mbadley
#387300
Teaching yourself to fly is NOT the way to go. You can't just 'pull over' when the crap hits the fan. I learned this way (with a 'minor' amount of instruction) and there were a few times I almost did myself in. I consider myself lucky that things 'worked out' or some self preservation instinct kicked in to keep me from ending my time here on eaand rth.

I think you can work with an experienced pilot on a bunny hill to get some basics in, and then follow with mentorship from somebody you trust - but that can be troublesome as well because they won't be recognizing the problems of a new pilot and may not have all the 'tricks' of a seasoned instructor to help them verbalize and realize their years of experience in a meaningful way.

I'm in complete agreement with others though, this sport is not forgiving for mistakes that put you too slow, too low and not enough in the 'know'.