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By over50
#284017
... but they seem to fly ... all the way! - Don't they?

Johannes
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By FMAN
#284018
over50 wrote:... but they seem to fly ... all the way! - Don't they?

Johannes
They better fly real good. :popcorn:
By Leggy
#284021
Malibu und Nothwing haben in D keine Zulassung, am besten mieteste dir den Fox für ein Jahr und schaust dann wies weitergeht.

Der Fox ist wirklich toll, aber sehr leichtgängig. Kein Vergleich zu den alten Schulungsdrachen.



The Malibu and the Northwing are not allowed in Germany...(No DHV Test)

Rent the Fox for one year and decide after the year what to buy next.


The Fox has an very easy handling..... Not like the old Training Gliders.
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By jcsaal
#284048
The only SS gliders I've flown are the WW Falcon andI had the Icaro RX2 which i borrowed for a weekend about two years ago so my memory about the details of the flights is fussy at best but I do certainly remember liking the RX2 a whole lot, I would say the RX2 "felt" to me lighter and much more nimble without being squirrely compared to the Falcon3, Icaros do not make sense here in America, we do have an amazing product from Wills Wing on the Falcon 3 and the costs of the Italian gliders are just sky-high but If I was in Europe and ready to buy an SS, I would certainly rent ( if possible ) an RX2 and give it a chance. Just my 2 cents
:surrender:
By over50
#284083
That's right,

we live in different continents; different local prices seem unavoidable because of transport, even differnt current.
Northwing and WW actually have no "dhv-Zulassung", but the Malibu has (!), is very expensiv as well. The other HGs, I mentionened are affordable, including the RX 2... .

Thanks for your expertise!

Johannes

It's nice, that our different continents bring many answers to the question, what a modern SS-HG could be, I think. And some of us may think: If I were in Australia, .... the States ... Germany, I rather would.... . Let all these manufacoreres (including the austrian ...) live!
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By soaring
#284091
Dontsink wrote:But be careful,mentioning Seedwings Europe in this forum can be dangerous...
Over50, I have sent you a personal message with my recommendations and opinion of two beginners friendly gliders.
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By paicolman
#284109
Hallo over50,

My instructor made a very cool, very light HG, with DHV certification and everything, but again - it's made in switzerland, so price might not be so attractive:

http://www.deltaflugschule.ch/MainPages ... ifter.aspx

On the other hand: a single surface HG will be soon "to little", so maybe renting would be a good idea, and after that moving to a Space from seedwings. I own a Kestrel myself, it's a little known seedwings model, somewhere between the old Merlin and the Space. I'm flirting with the idea of getting a spyder or a crossover, so mine could be on sale soon :wink:

(This post sounds like an advertisement for seedwings, oops! I like their gliders and know some of them, they are good launch/landing, but Finsterwalder, or older HG's like Moyes Mars are also very good for beginners...)
By over50
#284133
jcsaal wrote:but If I was in Europe and ready to buy an SS, I would certainly rent ( if possible ) an RX2 and give it a chance.
Thank you jcsaal!
About two hours ago I went to the south bavarian Icaro 2000 - Partner; he could show me a RX 2, M-Size. Absolutely everything seemed perfect on it. Icaro "invented" the "Relax" in 2002; seedwings Europe took quasi a copy of it and named it "Funky" (2006); Icaro then refined it a bit 2010 and it seems nearly perfect now. There is much "want to have one" in me now. They import some of them each year. (btw: we had 76 new licensed HG-Flyers in germany last year and about 1600 new PGs!) I coud order one, shortly before in Italy is "Ferragusta" - then nothing goes anymore until harverst.

Maybe I order a RX 2 M in three weeks; the dealer before has the chance to fly a Malibu 166. I believe him, he will compare them realistic; to the Funky it seems a liitle bit more "professional" (is a bit more expensive, yes ...!) - sorry! If I indeed get better one day in some years, they promised to buy it back for a good price and sell another icaro-product. - And Icaros I find a bit "cool", aren't they?Icaro is here affordabele, much cheaper than the "overseas".

And what's the matter with the Aeros (Super-)Fox???

Johannes
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By jcsaal
#284149
over50 wrote:About two hours ago I went to the south bavarian Icaro 2000 - Partner; he could show me a RX 2, M-Size. Absolutely everything seemed perfect on it. Icaro "invented" the "Relax" in 2002; seedwings Europe took quasi a copy of it and named it "Funky" (2006); Icaro then refined it a bit 2010 and it seems nearly perfect now. There is much "want to have one" in me now. They import some of them each year. (btw: we had 76 new licensed HG-Flyers in germany last year and about 1600 new PGs!) I coud order one, shortly before in Italy is "Ferragusta" - then nothing goes anymore until harverst.

Maybe I order a RX 2 M in three weeks; the dealer before has the chance to fly a Malibu 166. I believe him, he will compare them realistic; to the Funky it seems a liitle bit more "professional" (is a bit more expensive, yes ...!) - sorry! If I indeed get better one day in some years, they promised to buy it back for a good price and sell another icaro-product. - And Icaros I find a bit "cool", aren't they?Icaro is here affordabele, much cheaper than the "overseas".

And what's the matter with the Aeros (Super-)Fox???

Johannes
That sounds great Johannes!

Looks like you are narrowing down your options. Like I said I have never had the opportunity to fly the Malibu, Funky or Fox (Super Fox or the old Target).
If you look at the planform of the Funky, it looks exactly like the old Icaro Relax.
And I remember back in this thread "Fawkes" did mention:
Fawkes wrote:Comparing the Falcon with the Funky I would definitely go with the Funky. Both are great wings but the Funky has a lighter handling and better glide ratio. It is very very well manufactured.
Her feeling mirrors my feeling about the RX2.

Shooping for a new glider is definitely FUN! Not as fun as actually flying but certainly creates that "expectation" and "anticipation" that is sometimes hard to deal with, not to mention the wait period once you have actually placed an order! Good luck on your Glider hunt... Learn well, Fly safe and have lots and lots of Fun and happy landings!

Keep us posted.

Juan
By over50
#284499
paicolman wrote:My instructor made a very cool, very light HG, with DHV certification and everything, but again - it's made in switzerland
Hello paicolman,

that's very bold of your instructor, to build his "own" HG; the other thing to wonder is the extreme lightweight... one more interesting SS-HG.

I on my side want to have the dealer near as possible, in case ... and switzerland is not so near as the others.

Wish him many confident pupils in switzerland.

Johannes

Any other experiences on RX 2; (Super)FOX and others DHV 1-HGs? - the most "adult" one?
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By psuguru
#284523
Leggy wrote:The Malibu and the Northwing are not allowed in Germany...(No DHV Test)
My Malibu 188 has a keel sticker showing a DHV rating.

In standard form, the Funky can't be rigged flat; the UK agent supplies a special kit so that it can be flat rigged which is the normal method on windy UK hills.
I'm happy with my Malibu but it IS quite slow, which is a nuisance on UK sites: when it's windy enough to keep paragliders away, it's almost too windy for the Malibu. The Falcon 3 seems to do better AND it's cheaper.

Many UK pilots do their H2 (equivalent) using a double surface glider like the Airborne Sting 3, the Moyes XT, Airwave Calypso or the Avian Rio/Rio2. The Rio2 has superb build quality, the sail is easily as good as the Seedwings' Pausesegel quality.
But, from the gliders on your list, I'd say "Funky". Don't get the Perfex unless you live in a cupboard.
By over50
#284537
psuguru wrote:I'm happy with my Malibu ... I'd say "Funky". Don't get the Perfex unless you live in a cupboard.
Hello psuguru,

no, I'm happy not to live in a cupboard; but what seems to be bad on the perfex?

Nice to hear, someone in windy aerea as our alps are too, can be happy with a malibu 188 (which indeed has DHV 1).

As the RX 2 sems to be the slightly better funky, I come just nearer to the italian.

Thank you for your post

Johannes
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By Dontsink
#284540
over50 wrote:
psuguru wrote:I'm happy with my Malibu ... I'd say "Funky". Don't get the Perfex unless you live in a cupboard.
Hello psuguru,

no, I'm happy not to live in a cupboard; but what seems to be bad on the perfex?

Nice to hear, someone in windy aerea as our alps are too, can be happy with a malibu 188 (which indeed has DHV 1).

As the RX 2 sems to be the slightly better funky, I come just nearer to the italian.

Thank you for your post

Johannes
I like the RX2 on paper Johannes,Jim Rooney( well respected instructor at The Oz Report forum) says he really likes that glider,really easy to fly.
I want to know what's wrong with the Perfex too...
By over50
#284618
Are there any Aeros SS-HG-user here?

The original Target (16,2) was updated 2010 and named "FOX". For this glider you can get a two-parts mylar sail.
Btw.: all the others (Funky/RX2; Malibu etc.) have nowadays mylar in the front, the FOX as an "mylar-option"(named "SuperFOX"?); but then even at the end of the sail; I only found rare information/pictures about in the owner manual on the original ukrainian manufacturer-site.

Thomas Pellici, the german nearby developer of the FOX, told, it's for a beginner too dangerous, because if a mylar HG get's wet in almost rainy weather - then it accelarates and gets more difficult to fly. (Does't he want to sell any?)

In overseas you have a professional mylar-sailk-option for the NW Freedom, which seems very interesting for you, but we can't get it in germany.

Has anyone experience with the AEROS (Target/) FOX, even in the mylar-version?

Johannes
By over50
#284630
psuguru wrote:I'm happy with my Malibu but it IS quite slow, which is a nuisance on UK sites... it's almost too windy for the Malibu.
Hallo psuguru,

may I ask you, how much you weigh? I weigh 72 kg, and I was told, for example, a RX L would be too big for me in our windy alps. It is about the same 17,5 qm as the malibu 188 has. I should take the M one therefore (with 15,95 qm), although I love the videos from the malibu 188, because it IS so slow.

Johannes
By bobknop
#284633
Below link is my perfex,22 kg harnas 1.5 kg 15 minutes setup.
Out flies many other wings ,you can fly for ages,without paraglider
dangers.
Just ordered the funfex double surface,also in supine configuration,
but to each its own, i would say.....
Regards Bob,Holland.


Copy, paste:

[youtube]Hanggliding supine,Bob zittend soaren lan…


[/youtube]
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By soaring
#284651
over50 wrote:...... but what seems to be bad on the perfex?

Johannes
Don't think that there's anyone wrong with the Perfex. I just think that some people wonder what makes a new pilot buy a 20 year old design at full price with all the much newer alternatives available.
By over50
#284779
If I were reasonable ...

Just I have telephoned with IKARUS, Thomas Pellici, again. Talking about all these beginner questions (you know: which HG to purchase: RX 2; Funky; Fox, Mylar-Fox, Malibu, Finsterwalder ... ?), he just interrupted: There would be definitly no "Eier-legende-Woll-Milch-Sau" on the market (difficult to translate; see my head line: "... all purposes").
I'd have to learn to fly my way - and then buy ... ! But how "learn" without an own HG? Again he offered me, to rent either the FOX (not the mylar one: too fast, if getting wet), or the "390er" (you know, Pellici built it by himself: "IKARUS Funflyer 390" - just because of my weight: 72 kg) It's all the same with me: the old "... must have one", even "the best one"(best technique, best looking... - I not seldom got in a bit more than half a hundred years), -
Isn't HG-flying the best leisure? - and: almost "immediately"]!

But Thomas will be right; and there ist plenty of effort to me to learn to fly!!!

Maybe a double surface intermediate in some years, as he adviced, could be right (I replied: "Too heavy ("Try the finsterwalder funfex!(sc.@dontsink:later!"), too complicated to assemble ... . " He: "Get up five minutes earlier; and the "weight" will be training!" - Thomas is even almost ten years older than me ... ); or I stay with the simple single surface for "all the time", but then could try them all in reality, and buy the one, most accomodating to me. ... .

But then I couldn' t write here and argue with you, could I?!

Johannes

btw: I'm sure, no one here knows the IKARUS funfflyer 390, has flown one, got real pictures of it, do you?
Last edited by over50 on Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By Dontsink
#284783
It is good to explore all the choices Johannes,i did it too and i guess everyone goes through this on choosing a glider.The first one is probably the hardest as you do not have experience to back your reasoning.
I limited myself to the Finsterwalder Fexes because of the shortpacking but i thought hard about getting the Funfex instead of the Perfex.It is (according to owners) a DoubleSurface a beginner pilot can enjoy and be safe reasonably quickly,if he is good.
But i also read many posts of people getting PIO when flying DS gliders for the first time,or whacking,or getting bad scares of many kinds.
I think flying any glider is risky and difficult enough without pushing it at all so i went for a SS glider.If i neeed more glide performance i can always sell it in a couple years,or keep as a second glider for relaxed flying.
I think there is no perfect choice Johannes,any glider will have pros and cons and being a newbie like you i can only reccommend to err on the safe,simple and fun side of it.
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By jcsaal
#284834
over50 wrote:If I were reasonable ...

Just I have telephoned with IKARUS, Thomas Pellici, again. Talking about all these beginner questions (you know: which HG to purchase: RX 2; Funky; Fox, Mylar-Fox, Malibu, Finsterwalder ... ?), he just interrupted: There would be definitly no "Eier-legende-Woll-Milch-Sau" on the market (difficult to translate; see my head line: "... all purposes").
I'd have to learn to fly my way - and then buy ... ! But how "learn" without an own HG? Again he offered me, to rent either the FOX (not the mylar one: too fast, if getting wet), or the "390er" (you know, Pellici built it by himself: "IKARUS Funflyer 390" - just because of my weight: 72 kg) It's all the same with me: the old "... must have one", even "the best one"(best technique, best looking... - I not seldom got in a bit more than half a hundred years), -
Isn't HG-flying the best leisure? - and: almost "immediately"]!

But Thomas will be right; and there ist plenty of effort to me to learn to fly!!!

Maybe a double surface intermediate in some years, as he adviced, could be right (I replied: "Too heavy ("Try the finsterwalder funfex!(sc.@dontsink:later!"), too complicated to assemble ... . " He: "Get up five minutes earlier; and the "weight" will be training!" - Thomas is even almost ten years older than me ... ); or I stay with the simple single surface for "all the time", but then could try them all in reality, and buy the one, most accomodating to me. ... .

But then I couldn' t write here and argue with you, could I?!

Johannes

btw: I'm sure, no one here knows the IKARUS funfflyer 390, has flown one, got real pictures of it, do you?
Hey Johannes,

Like others have said, whatever your choice is, definitely try to keep it simple!
I would recomend NOT to do a full mylar sail on your first wing!
First of all, Dacron ages better, more longevity under UV rays and less expensive for minor repairs that are somewhat unavoidable when learning the sport.
Second, Mylar is expensive and its characteristics make no sense on a beginier glider, Mylar sails make sense when your preocupied for performance rather than forgivness.
Mylar leading edges do help with less deformation at higher speeds and improve penetration upwind, so if your flying sites are windy then the Mylar leading edge is a good option but I would stick with a Dacron mainsail.

Good luck on your search, and happy landings!
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