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By remmoore
#221318
I do simple resistance exercises to strengthen my neck muscles for HG. I put a towel across the back of my head and hold the ends of it out in front of me. I then rock my head (like nodding yes), using the towel to provide whatever resistance I want. A few sets of this each night keeps my neck in good shape for flying. It takes less than 5 minutes per session, and saves me alot of pain during flights.

If you're not into exercise, there are some good helmet pulley designs out there. Personally, I don't like adding such a mechanism, but there are plenty of pilots who swear by them.

RM
User avatar
By Avnav8r
#221320
[quote="pjwings"]That's cool John...

Hey, random question for you... on 2 out my last 3 flights at lookout I've soared with a bird that is all white except for the tail which has a reddish color... very similar to the tail of a ... well, a Red Tail ;). It's about the same size as a fully grown Red Tail as well... at least I think it is, it's difficult to tell without getting close, and I've never gotten close enough to get a really good look. It really stands out from a distance against the wintery landscape colors. Any idea what it could be?


[quote="Avnav8r"]Hey Paul,

There used to be a company in the U.K. that made a harness where one could go from prone to suprone, but I haven't seen anything from the company lately (any U.K. pilots know what became of this company?). Some pilots have come up with a bungee system that goes from the harness to the helmet that helps support the head in flight. Anybody out there still use a system like this?

John Stokes

www.osceolabaldeagle.com

Paul,

That bird is a very light/white Red-tailed Hawk. Keith Bien flew with that bird a week or so as well. Red-tailed Hawks vary a lot. By contrast, there is a chocolate brown Red-tailed Hawk that winters in Lookout Valley. It and can be usually seen around dusk in the LZ as it roosts in some pine trees on the NW side of the field. It is so dark that I thought it was a Harris' Hawk that a falconer had lost. The Harris' Hawk is native to the desert Southwest. But the bird does indeed have a brick red tail.

John
www.osceolabaldeagle.com
User avatar
By pjwings
#221322
Awesome. I had no idea they had such variations in coloring. There have been red tails out with us every flight all winter. Often a few at a time. I can never get used to soaring with these birds that I have watched from the ground and admired since before I can remember.


Avnav8r wrote: Paul,

That bird is a very light/white Red-tailed Hawk. Keith Bien flew with that bird a week or so as well. Red-tailed Hawks vary a lot. By contrast, there is a chocolate brown Red-tailed Hawk that winters in Lookout Valley. It and can be usually seen around dusk in the LZ as it roosts in some pine trees on the NW size of the field. It is so dark that I thought it was a Harris' Hawk that a falconer had lost. The Harris' Hawk is native to the desert Southwest. But the bird does indeed have a brick red tail.

John
www.osceolabaldeagle.com
User avatar
By red
#221326
pjwings,

Yeah, now that I looked at the harness, Bob has a good point. Try adding a new shoulder stop-rope to the harness, and see if that helps. This new rope goes from the front of the right shoulder, through the carabiner, to the front of the left shoulder. It should stop the forward rotation of your body when you are comfortably head-level.

If there is no good way to attach a line at the front of the shoulder strap now, you can try it out temporarily, with just a thin rope.

To add a Nylon rope where there is no pick-up loop now, here's how:
Put a piece of wood inside the harness, where you want to make a hole for your shoulder rope. Gently, poke a pointy (#1) Phillips screwdriver from outside the harness, into the wood. Twist and wiggle the screwdriver point against the wood, patiently, until it penetrates the fabric. You are separating the fibers of the material, NOT cutting a hole. When the screwdriver goes through, trade the screwdriver for a pencil, and continue to enlarge the hole until you can pass a thin rope through the hole. Use a hot soldering iron or hot blade to cut and melt the ends of the thin rope, and make them pointy. Put the thin rope through the hole, and tie the rope back onto itself, making a loop. Do the same process, for the other shoulder strap. Do a long hang-test in the shop with your new shoulder stop-rope, and you can even fly it like this. When you are done testing the new shoulder pick-up rope, you can just remove the new rope from the harness, and wiggle the fabric between your hands, to make the hole almost disappear.

If you like the results with this new rope, any decent harness maker or parachute rigger can sew new webbing loops at the shoulders, for the new shoulder rope.

If you can break the sewing thread with your bare hands, without cutting your hands, that stuff is NOT harness-sewing thread.

:mrgreen:
By kermit
#221332
I read somewhere, I think it was Davis at the OZ report. He has some kind of support system that holds up his helmet, like one of those retractable key chains, your head can move around and you can adjust the tension so it takes the weight of your head and helmet off your shoulders.

Or maybe I was drinking and made the hole thing up
By kermit
#221334
I found this, it's Davis you can see some kind of support system.

User avatar
By pjwings
#221335
That's cool!

kermit wrote:I found this, it's Davis you can see some kind of support system.

User avatar
By flyin_canuck
#221342
Hey PJ
the worst thing for the human spine is to be in the prone position

I understand the comments above are meant to help lift up the shoulders, problem is the direction of a rope that goes from shoulders to caribener, the rope has a force that lifts up but it also pulls back, could actually make the situation worse
There is some amount of compression on the shoulders with the type of harness you have
check out what Davis did to adjust his covert, I did this to my matrix 2 years ago
A well adjusted back plated harness may be the best for you
User avatar
By relate2
#221370
With my old Moyes Extreme harness and my new Moyes Contour harness, if I just bend my knees my harness automatically rocks up and when I straighten my legs it goes prone again.

I quiet often fly around rocked up with my zipper still done up and my feet still in the boot of the harness. I find it really relieves the stress on my neck. I don't know if your harness allows you to do this.

Cheers

Robert
User avatar
By FormerFF
#221375
Do what I do - sink out quickly... :oops:
User avatar
By pjwings
#221400
Yeah, ok. I may have to try some different harnesses out. Thanks!
flyin_canuck wrote:Hey PJ
the worst thing for the human spine is to be in the prone position

I understand the comments above are meant to help lift up the shoulders, problem is the direction of a rope that goes from shoulders to caribener, the rope has a force that lifts up but it also pulls back, could actually make the situation worse
There is some amount of compression on the shoulders with the type of harness you have
check out what Davis did to adjust his covert, I did this to my matrix 2 years ago
A well adjusted back plated harness may be the best for you

My harness has a string and cleat system that allows me to adjust my angle. I do fly somewhat upright most of the time and it helps a lot, but eventually the neck still gets me. It's the weak link in my chain that is preventing me from breaking the 3 hour mark on my flights.
relate2 wrote:With my old Moyes Extreme harness and my new Moyes Contour harness, if I just bend my knees my harness automatically rocks up and when I straighten my legs it goes prone again.

I quiet often fly around rocked up with my zipper still done up and my feet still in the boot of the harness. I find it really relieves the stress on my neck. I don't know if your harness allows you to do this.

Cheers

Robert
Former FF... what can I say!?!!??? :rofl:
User avatar
By Avnav8r
#221440
Hey Davis,

Do you have any details of your NSS (Noggin Support System). It looks like a good set up.

John Stokes

www.osceolabaldeagle.com
User avatar
By UnTuckable
#221512
You might make sure there isn't a medical reason for the neck pain?
User avatar
By BRP
#221526
Something else you might try is cross training with a mtn bike. A half hour ride each night after work did wonders for my neck on the weekends flying. Makes a 3 hour flight lots easier. I have a Chiropractor for a brother, and get lots of adjustments but what helped the most was the bike rides spent looking up at what else, Clouds! :mrgreen:
User avatar
By pjwings
#221527
That's cool. I really enjoy biking... just need to make time. It's a far more enjoyable form of exercise for me than anything that can be done indoors. I have an appointment in a couple of weeks with a chiro who is also a physical therapy type guy. I'm going to see if he has anything to say about my physiology as well as get some strength building exercises. I'll keep you all posted in case it's useful for someone else someday. If all else fails I may implement a head-holdy-uppy thing.

Thanks!
BRP wrote:Something else you might try is cross training with a mtn bike. A half hour ride each night after work did wonders for my neck on the weekends flying. Makes a 3 hour flight lots easier. I have a Chiropractor for a brother, and get lots of adjustments but what helped the most was the bike rides spent looking up at what else, Clouds! :mrgreen:
CORRECTION: far more enjoyable than almost anything that can be done indoors.... :wink:
User avatar
By UnTuckable
#221623
Any numbness in the hands after flying?

In the last few years, one local pilot found out he had some misalignment from a high school injury ('70's) and another is getting some metal reinforcement...
User avatar
By psuguru
#221628
Avnav8r wrote:Hey Paul,

There used to be a company in the U.K. that made a harness where one could go from prone to suprone, but I haven't seen anything from the company lately (any U.K. pilots know what became of this company?). Some pilots have come up with a bungee system that goes from the harness to the helmet that helps support the head in flight. Anybody out there still use a system like this?

John Stokes

www.osceolabaldeagle.com
Hiway? Gone the way of the Dodo.
Charly-Finsterwalder advertise a couple: http://www.finsterwalder-charly.de/html ... rtwahl.php
By wingsmith
#221686
Hi PJ,
I had a second look at your photo and noticed the forwardmost harness support rope attaches to the harness somewhere aft of your armpits. I don't know the internal support configuration of your harness, but if it is not doing its job or is out of adjustment you are trying to support your upper body, arms, neck and head from your upper chest and arms on the bar. I am assuming some form of internal support frame tied into the shoulder area of the harness, and it would appear that your shoulders are well forward of the end of this frame. If you go completely limp in your harness do your shoulders and neck slump, and where does the harness start digging in to you? Where do you actually feel the support digging into you normally? I have spent hours hanging in my harnesses at home and making adjustments before becoming satisfied they were adequate, and have had numerous 3-7 hour flights in complete comfort. Just hanging continuously for three hours or more will highlight issues you would not notice in just one hour or less.

From recent postings on the Covert harness, folks have addressed shoulder discomfort by moving aft in the harness (cutting the aft foot rest/fairing down and tightening their shoulder straps) and hanging such that their shoulders are more directly under (vs ahead of) the front of the internal support, and their shoulder support is closer, more direct and vertical. I don't know if you can move back in your harness without extending the boot, but it is worth a look.

Other factors that come to mind are learning to relax between control inputs. My long flights were in a very tight Sensor 510 that required lots of muscle. I was only able to break 3 hours or so after learning to momentarily hang limp in the harness between each major control effort. In the off-hand chance that muscle tension is the culprit, try to deliberately relax your neck and shoulders after each input, for the whole flight (obviously don't do this if you are about to hit a mountain). I have known of pilots hanging their head off the edge of their bed for long periods with weights hanging from their helmets to train the neck muscles for long flights, if you feel simple neck strength is an issue.

Hope this helps you find your way to painless flight. If not, I leave you a quote from my mother after meeting me in the LZ with my arms hurting too much to break down my glider right away after a long flight: "Isn't that why they call it Soaring?".

Regards,

Bill Dodson (wingsmith)

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